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Next week’s State of the state speech could include a plan for a new money stream for the state's clean water program and a conversation about water, land and air with a key environmental group.

That's this week in The state of Ohio.

Welcome to the state of Ohio.

I'm Karen Kasler.

Next week is governor Mike DeWine final state of the state address.

Unlike his predecessor, John Kasich, who often use those speeches to look back, DeWine has used his annual address to introduce policies such as the creation of the Department of Children and Youth, the State of Ohio Action for Resiliency Network, or Soar, to work on causes of mental illness and addiction.

The Pilots Ohio C program to bring treatment to kids who fail school vision screenings, and Lieutenant Governor Jim Tressel fitness program.

This year, DeWine could introduce a proposal to keep his multi-agency clean water initiative, H2 Ohio, going a bond issue that would go before voters.

I think it would make it easier for everybody, you know, if we passed this on the ballot, we would just set an amount of money, and that money would come out every single year.

And so that there could be planning ahead.

No matter what your intentions are, you know, you can't always assure the the continuity and the consistency and the money.

So, again, this is one well, the great assets that Ohio has, is our water.

And, if we do this with a bond issue, will assure future generations that Ohio water is going to be good.

And it's a it's a competitive advantage, frankly, that we have over many, many other states that, frankly, today are having a hard time with their water.

We need to preserve and protect our water.

Looking at it this year or tomorrow, what I'd like to get, I'd like to get on the ballot in November.

But DeWine didn't want to say how much money he thinks the bond issue should raise.

I don't want to put a number down because again, I want to talk to the two leaders.

But, you know, you could go back and look at the budget and see what we have been spending on H2 Ohio.

And so the goal would be to be able to continue to do that and have they have that to be steady and ensure that farmers and everybody else knows this money is going to be available, that But DeWine could run into a blockade from House Speaker Matt Hoffman.

one of the things that, he and I have talked about is, a ballot issue for, for a bond issue for H2O.

Ohio for for water.

I don't think we're going to do that.

I think the governor, of course, has the right to make his case.

another issue on which DeWine and Hoffman disagree is a tax break for data centers.

State lawmakers eliminated an exemption from sales taxes on materials that contractors use to build data centers in the budget last year, but DeWine vetoed that.

Hoffman says the House is likely to take action.

I think that we should override the governor's veto on sales tax.

You know, that that's one of those things I think happened during the Kasich administration.

Data centers were a new thing.

We'd like for them to be built in Ohio.

But I don't think that the companies who are building those should get special treatment when buying materials to build their buildings.

And so I think that that may be coming.

And Senate President Rob McColley backs Hoffman up on the veto override.

action?

It's possible.

I mean, it was the Senate proposal when it got into the budget.

It was we put it in, we looked at it and we said, look, with a lot of the different advantages that data centers would have in Ohio, especially given the fact that we recently gave them the ability to build power behind their own meter and not take it off grid.

We didn't think that there was any need for the sales tax exemption anymore.

Obviously, because the budget was a House, bill at its origination.

The House has to act first.

If they are to act on the bill, we'll certainly whip our members and see where they line up.

The House and Senate both have three sessions scheduled this month before spring break.

Data centers were once lauded and welcomed as creators of high paying jobs, big construction contracts and clean development.

Compare to manufacturing facilities or other heavy industry.

Ohio was one of the top states for data centers.

We have around 200, and nearly 80 more are coming.

Most of them are in central Ohio.

Advocates for data center say they're economic investments that pay off, the Ohio Chamber of Commerce said in an October report.

The data centers created 95,000 jobs and contributed nearly $12 billion to the state's GDP, and advocates also say the concerns about water and energy use are overblown.

But that's not how environmental activists see it.

I sat down this week with Carol Kaufmann, the CEO of the Ohio Environmental Council, to ask her about that, and I started by asking her about the Ohio bond issue.

So let's start with something that we will have discussed earlier in the show.

H2 Ohio.

So state lawmakers cut governor Mike DeWine ask for H2 Ohio by about 40%.

He says he'd like to put a bond issue on the November ballot to try to raise money for H2 Ohio.

Are you aware of this?

What are your thoughts on asking voters to pay for H2 Ohio?

Yeah, I love this question and I love this program.

And in fact, my organization is a member of a coalition, the H2 Ohio Coalition, that has been supportive of this program ever since governor DeWine established it, and our legislature funded it through multiple budget cycles.

And this coalition includes environmental groups like mine, but it also includes conservation groups, the farm community and the business community all coming together to say this program is desperately needed and it's having an impact, so we need to protect it.

So we we do support the idea that the governor has been discussing around like a ten year bond, some kind of uncertainty for the funding mechanism so that people who are making decisions for farmers or conservationists, making decisions about what they want to do with their land, have some certainty of what to expect and feel confident making those investments.

And DeWine has said that part of it has to do with consistency, because you can't start and stop some of these things if you're trying to create wetlands, so to speak, you can't.

Or so just as an example, you can't start and stop that.

Exactly.

And the program has been in existence now for several years and have seen results.

We we have hard data now that is so exciting that in the communities where these investments are being made through Ohio, at least a 10% reduction of phosphorus going into the watershed is being recorded.

So the phosphorus is what is driving this slimy green algae match on Lake Erie and other water bodies around the state that kill fish, and obviously they drive away tourism and economic development.

So the fact that we're seeing year over year reductions in that phosphorus means the program is working and now is not the time to walk away from it.

I want to ask you about data centers in Ohio.

EPA Central Ohio Regional Water Study, released last year showed that by 2040, data centers will need 70 million gallons of water a day.

Farmers are going to need 110 million gallons a day.

Industrial cooling demands are estimated to increase by approximately 120% across the region from 2021 to 2050.

Are you concerned about data centers?

I think everyone is concerned about data centers.

Karen, it I joke that I can't have a conversation right now that doesn't involve data centers.

And you know, they are here already.

This is not a future kind of threat or challenge.

And more are coming where one of the top things.

We are one of the top states.

Second only in the Midwest to Illinois for the number of data centers that are located in Ohio today.

And a lot of communities really do want these centers.

They see them as a means for improving their infrastructure and driving jobs and economic growth and opportunity.

And I don't want to downplay that, but there are real challenges.

And you just mentioned some of them.

There's not an infinite supply of water, there's not an infinite supply of energy.

And we really have to equip communities and policymakers to establish a framework for how we're going to manage, especially these hyperscale data centers.

They come here because it's a good tax state.

We have abundant water resources.

We have a stable climate.

We have a lot going for us, but we need to be able to make sure we're getting what we need as communities and as a state out of these developments as well.

I want to ask you about something that you said that you said the Central Ohio region is sinking due to groundwater subsidy.

And I mean, what does that mean?

Well, it means that we do not have an unlimited amount of water under our feet.

Part of our region sits on a pretty significant aquifer, the northeast side of central Ohio.

And that is being used.

And this is something that's happening all over the country and, frankly, all over the world as our thirst for water continues to grow.

Those groundwater supplies, as they get taken out of the ground, are causing the levels, to subside.

You know, we are seeing a change in our geology and our topography in this region.

And I don't want to alarm anybody.

I don't think there's going to be a great sinkhole opening up, you know, under anyone's living room anytime soon.

But what it does point to is we can't just think that we can stick a straw down and infinitely pull out water and never have to manage that and look for more efficient ways to manage that resource.

And it's not just the water that's drawn in, but also the water that comes out of these data centers.

There's a change in how Ohio EPA's regulating sewage and storm runoff for data centers from data centers.

At least that change is proposed.

You have a somewhat surprising ally in this in Republican U.S.

Senator Bernie Marino, who said on X, Ohio should not compromise the integrity of our waterways to help data centers.

The companies putting these centers up have so much money.

We expect the water going back into our rivers to be cleaner than ever before.

What's happening to the water that's going away from data centers after that cooling happens?

Well, first of all, you know, I want to really give Senator Marino credit for that.

And I'm not surprised.

You know, he he calls the lake region of our state home.

And I think he is clear that he really does value the protecting the quality of our great Lake Erie and our water supplies.

I'm also not surprised because, you know, our organization has recently done some polling.

We're getting ready to release the results.

And what we found is across all groups, all corners of the state, Ohioans continue to have, incredibly high support for investing in and protecting our water resources.

So he's really just in line with all of the folks who he represents in Congress, and I appreciate him making that stand.

As far as what happens to that water, that really varies by project.

And, and part of what I think we need to do is have a much more granular discussion around.

You know, there's a difference between a server closet and a hyperscale data center.

And each data center also has, different technology that it uses for cooling.

Some of them use a lot of water, some use a lot less summer trying to be more efficient.

But really, there needs to be more transparency about, the water efficiency and energy efficiency standards that they're held to.

And then the permitting needs to reflect the unique needs of each project.

And on the energy question.

Obviously a lot of people have been concerned about their energy bills going up.

Governor Mike DeWine has said that maybe the solution eventually is small nuclear power sites.

That's been talked about how, for a long time, environmental advocates were very concerned about nuclear power.

What are your thoughts on that?

Well, you know, first of all, any kind of nuclear, development of new nuclear capability in Ohio is ten, 12, 15 years.

Down the line, it takes a really long time to get those kinds of projects up and running, let alone through, local opposition and zoning and all of the different bureaucratic hurdles.

At the same time, we have a solution that is sitting here ready today.

Today, the cheapest, fastest and cleanest form of energy is solar energy in Ohio.

Wind energy in other places, not so much in Ohio, right now.

And there are projects waiting to be built all over the state that could address people's, real pain around energy affordability.

That's another thing that came out in the polling.

We did, is this is top of mind in a way that it wasn't even a year ago.

Folks are really feeling the pinch in their pocketbooks, and they're worried about their energy bills.

I want to ask you about, on that note, Senate Bill 294, it would declare it to be state policy in all cases for new electricity generation facilities to employ affordable, reliable and clean energy sources.

That sounds like renewables.

But the fiscal analysis of the bill by the researchers who work for state lawmakers wrote that, quote, it may increase the likelihood of approval for future applications for a certificate from the Power Siting Board, particularly for projects using energy generated from sources such as natural gas, biomass, nuclear reaction, hydrocarbons.

So that makes it sound like this bill actually doesn't open the door for more renewables.

Are you seeing a move at the state House to welcome more renewables, or is this shutting the door to more renewable projects?

I don't know if I can comment on that specific bill, because I haven't had the time to to read through the bill.

But I do think you point out something interesting, which is that when we say the words like green energy or clean energy, not everybody has the same understanding of what we mean by that.

In fact, there was a bill that said green energy is natural gas, which a lot of people would dispute, that, folks who are concerned about the climate and the air pollution impacts of, of, natural gas operations might have a different opinion.

And I am one of those people, obviously, you know, but frankly, there there are solutions today.

And I am starting to see some really positive signs that, you know, folks, regardless of their party affiliation, are really looking to, kind of carve a new path on energy policy and recognize that it's a real barrier for continued growth and development for the Buckeye State.

So I've been encourage, you know, last year we saw HB 15, get passed with overwhelming bipartisan support through both chambers and signed into law.

And now we're hearing more opportunities to to really open up that conversation in new ways in the state.

I would expect over the next couple of years, you're going to hear more and more appetite for the state to address siting of these kinds of projects in a sensible way that preserves communities ability to zone and site and regulate, but also allows us to build, frankly, the infrastructure that we need to build.

And some of those issues are coming before the Ohio Supreme Court when it comes to solar farms, because there are lawsuits over local interest and local concerns about solar farms.

But Supreme Court has been siding with solar farms quite often.

Are you seeing, the opposition to solar in particular?

You say you're not.

But we've heard about it for years from people who say that they're concerned about these mass solar projects and what they will look like.

What will they do to the land?

Sure.

Yeah.

No, I don't think that's gone away at all.

There's a lot of folks who, you know, some of whom are in my family or in my, you know, friend group.

Who who are really feeling a lot of anxiety about, you know, what happens in our rural communities.

How are we using land?

How do we preserve farmland?

How do we preserve the character of our communities?

And I don't want to minimize that at all.

I think, those are all really important questions, and we need to get to solutions that work well for everyone.

At the same time, you're starting to hear folks, and this also came out in the polling we did recognize that, hey, I think that a landowner or a homeowner should be able to put solar on their own land if that's something that they want to do.

And in fact, there are examples of, farmers who have said, this is how I'm going to be able to keep the family farm in the family is if I can incorporate solar into the farming and the row crops that I am already doing, I want to turn to fracking.

Now.

The state has allowed fracking in state parks and on wildlife areas under wildlife areas since 2023, and has approved fracking on around 12,000 acres of state land.

DeWine has said that his administration, as long as he's in office, will not allow fracking rigs, roads, pipelines or tanks inside the boundaries of state parks and wildlife areas.

Is that what you're hearing?

That it's not having an effect on what happens in the state Parks and Wildlife areas?

Well, I certainly applaud that.

You know, the governor, drawing that line.

However, it's also the case that, nature really doesn't understand artificial boundaries.

So, you know, I have I have had the experience of going to a state, nature preserve and hiking in it, and there is a natural gas well operating on the boundary of the preserve.

And the entire time I was hiking, I could smell natural gas fumes and hear the sounds of that, operation as it was going, you know, running.

So I don't think that we can say that there's no impact.

There clearly is an impact.

And then further, you know, Ohio ranks near last in terms of its remaining protected public lands.

Most land in Ohio is in private hands.

It's highly developed.

We have a large population based on our geographic size.

And so we really need to hold on to the remaining public land that we have.

And we're really concerned that the federal administration has taken steps to try to lease 40,000 acres of the Wayne National Forest, our only national forest, for fracking.

So if that moves forward, it would have the impact, by their own estimation, of wiping out the next 30 years of carbon sequestration.

You have two Democratic representatives, Kristen Coakley interest and Rader, who have publicly spoken out against new drilling permits under the Egypt Valley Wildlife Area.

The public comment on that is closing this week.

Are you hopeful that that will somehow be stopped, or is there any way, because of the way that the law is written, to stop a permit?

It's very difficult to stop these projects from moving forward.

Something I have seen is that there there's a lot of concern, especially by folks who live near these, parks and preserves, about the impact on their air quality, quality of life, access to these natural areas.

And so people are showing up.

They're making their voices heard.

They are submitting public comments.

It doesn't always result in these leases being denied, unfortunately.

And it's not just fracking, but also fracking waste that's been coming into Ohio.

Our total of injection wells outnumbers those in nearby states.

Is that another thing to be worried about long term when it comes to just fracking in general?

There's a lot of waste, to be concerned about, for sure.

I know that there was a bill introduced recently that would ban the application of that brine from the fracking waste on roads.

It's a it's a form of some communities use it to, to remove ice and snow from the roads.

Has enormous public health and environmental health impacts, though, because it's running off the roads and contaminating water.

And so a lot of folks are really concerned about that.

And I was pleased to see, there's some movement at the state House to attempt to address that particular aspect of the waste.

So we went from water to land.

Now let's talk about air.

There's a lawsuit against the state over its decision to roll back some tools that Ohioans have used for decades to try to enforce federal clean air standards.

I believe the Ohio Environmental Council is part of that.

What's happening there?

Yeah.

So you're exactly right.

So, as part of the budget bill last year, the legislature added in some language that would remove that, the ability for folks who live, next to a major industrial operation and, believe they're impacted negatively by air pollution from that operation.

Under current state law, they are able to sue and to defend their, their, their right to breathe clean air.

And so we have, challenged that, I believe, on grounds of the single subject rule and really are trying to fight for Ohioans to be able to exercise their right to breathe clean air.

What other plays out?

What other concerns do you have about air?

I mean, I know there's been talk about eliminating, the program in northern Ohio.

Are there other things that you're watching when it comes to specifically air pollution in Ohio, especially with coal fired power plants still around?

Sure.

Well, yes.

Industrial pollution, air pollution continues to be a concern for Ohio.

And I think the thing that I'm most concerned about right now is that the, federal, you know, the U.S.

EPA has really been stepping back from, enforcing the standards that it has set over its 50 plus year history to protect people's, air quality.

And so that's really going to affect all Ohioans.

I really don't want to see us go back to the days that I remember as a, you know, a young child where you had smog alerts in urban areas almost every day, you know, high asthma rates for children.

There's really and we we never used to have bald eagles.

You know, there's so much that we've done to protect our air and our land and our water over the years.

And I really, really want Ohio.

And, you know, other states in the Great Lakes to, to come together, step forward and see how we can really address that gap in regulatory protection.

And finally, with all of the movement from the federal government, with Republicans in charge at the federal level, and in Ohio, there's been rolling back of of various things.

Are you hopeful at all?

I mean, how do you keep going when you see some of these actions that you believe really are going to be detrimental to the environment?

I have I love this question, and I have I have two answers.

Number one, I really do have faith in Ohioans.

They they want a commonsense approach, and they aren't looking for, leaders to, to be extreme in any way.

You know, they want to live their lives.

They want to leave a better world for the next generation.

And they consistently tell us that when we ask them what's important to them.

And so I really do believe that Ohioans are going to navigate their way into a better future.

And then the second way that I would answer that question is to quote one of my mentors, Rich Shenk.

He used to lead the Ohio EPA.

He's a fantastic leader and has done so much for the state of Ohio.

And what he said is, when you're feeling a little bit, you know, defeated or down, you need to look back and you need to look forward.

So if you look back to the early 1970s, I was just describing some of the way that the environment was in Ohio at that time.

You had the Cuyahoga River on fire, actually, that that was actually what founded the OEC that I lead today.

And here we are.

You know, 57 years later, we're still going strong.

So you look back and you say, gosh, we really have made an incredible amount of progress in that can't be done overnight.

And then you look forward and you say, in 20 years, in 30 years, we're going to continue to see that we've made progress, even if there's been steps back here and there.

And that is it for this week for my colleagues at the statehouse.

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inspired every da And from the Ohio education Association, representing 120,000 educators who are united in their mission to create the excellent public schools every child deserves.

More at OHEA.org