♪ > Welcome to This Week In South Carolina I'm Gavin Jackson.

This week, we talked to the two Republicans in the June 23rd runoff for the gubernatorial nomination including Attorney General Alan Wilson and Lieutenant Governor Pamela Evette, who's in studio with us today.

Welcome back, Lieutenant Governor.

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Gavin, it's great to see you.

Gavin> So, it's been a long week.

It's been a long campaign.

But you locked down 29 percent of the vote in that June 9th election.

Attorney General Wilson got 26 percent of the vote.

We are taping Tuesday, June 16th.

Tell us about the past week and what you've been doing as you guys are in this sprint for the runoff.

And what is the path to victory for you?

> So I'm doing what I've been doing since I threw my hat in the ring.

I'm out with the people.

I'm shaking their hands.

I'm taking their questions.

You know, I'm going out to, you know, my opponents who didn't make it to the runoff.

And going to their people and making an appeal to them, both of them.

Being a businessman was big on their on their list of what they brought to the table.

Well, now this race is really clear.

It's between a businesswoman and a career politician.

And so those people, you know, align with me.

And so I'm going out there and saying, "hey, I really would be honored to have your vote.

Come on to team Evette, and let's get this thing done on the 23rd."

Gavin> And all of your former opponents, with the exception of Rom Reddy, have endorsed Wilson.

Congressman Ralph Norman, who came in third with 17 percent of the vote said he spoke with you and Wilson.

And that Wilson had a clearer vision for South Carolina.

So what do you make of all these endorsements at this point?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, really, I don't make much of it.

I got President Trump's endorsement and that, if you're a Republican, is the golden ticket of endorsements.

President Trump is really running the table when it comes to his picks across the country.

And I was really honored because, you know, President Trump, when he called me that day to say he was giving me his full and total endorsement- He said, "you know, I know all the players, and you're the only one who can get the job done in South Carolina and that's why I'm choosing you."

And it was really humbling.

And it's probably a conversation I'll take to my, deathbed.

I don't think I'll forget any part of it.

Gavin> When you go back to those endorsements and what we'd heard on the campaign trail, I mean, it was almost a year on this trail for some folks- And to hear, you know, what opponents are saying against you and also Attorney General Wilson, but then also to see that be translated into now endorsements.

I mean, it's interesting to see like, the strange bedfellows of politics, right now.

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, you know, it's interesting because I remember the first time I ever ran in any kind of race.

Governor McMaster and I ran and got into a runoff with businessman John Warren.

And everybody who lost any race in that cycle stood on a stage with him the next day.

And the Governor and I won by, I think, almost seven points, if not more.

And so, I think, especially when your message- Like, people supported those candidates for reasons.

And if you, you look at Rom Reddy, they supported him because he was a businessman.

They wanted, you know, somebody in business.

They didn't want a career politician.

When you look at Congressman Norman, you know, his platform was I don't want career politicians.

I want term limits.

I don't want somebody who's been lining their pockets and their donor's pockets with state money.

And then you go over to the career politician who took a 126 percent pay increase over the last eight years.

The Governor and I turned our pay increases down.

Who gave 70 million dollars in a no bid contract to his prior law firm.

I mean, it goes against everything the Congressman stood against.

And so, I just think it probably makes his followers wonder when all that changed.

And that's why I said, "listen, I've been saying the same things."

You can look at my past.

I'm all about, you know, education and, economic development, but smart.

You know, let's get a blueprint.

Let's bring local government in, let's figure out- I have a very business-minded approach to government.

Government can't completely be run like a business, but you can take the best of business principles and bring it to government.

And that's what I intend to do.

Gavin> There was a lot of discussion about career politicians versus outsiders.

And of course, Rom Reddy was probably the most outsider since he wasn't in office too long.

You, you know, like you said, you were with the Governor in 2018, for his first run in 2022.

Now you're running to succeed him, so.

Of course, that's eight years in office.

I mean, do you see that not as a career politician versus what other folks might be defined as.

How do you define a career politician?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, you know, I've been... I've been careful to stay away- You know, I think there should be term limits.

I couldn't tell you what that would be in every specific, you know, role.

Whether it be Congress or Senate or, you know, local, State House.

But I do think you shouldn't be there too long because you need a fresh perspective.

I ran as a Lieutenant Governor because the Governor asked me to.

Technically it was a part-time position, but, I at least got a glimpse of what that looks like.

What does it look like to be a governor?

How do you work with people?

I think that's important because I have also run on this race by saying, you have to look at people's resumes.

I've been a successful CEO in the private sector.

Started a business from an office in my house, grew it into a national company.

But I've sat at the right hand of the Governor watching and learning.

So that I know how this role should be.

I know how to work with the General Assembly.

I know what the next steps are needed to keep moving South Carolina forward.

There's no learning curve with me.

And I think that's an asset.

Gavin> You were talking about how President Donald Trump's endorsement was the most important endorsement in this race.

And a lot of people did think that was gonna be a bit of a golden ticket, there.

But it did seem like there was a lot of blowback from other folks, from outsiders and people in the race as well, especially when he alluded to Henry D. McMaster Jr.

as possibly being your running mate.

That was something that he came out against a week after Trump mentioned it.

You and the Governor denied all this, but why was that even a part of the post in the first place?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, I think anybody that knows the President knows that the President says whatever is on the President's mind.

You know, I was really saddened.

You know, Henry McMaster Jr.

was not going to be lieutenant governor.

Henry Jr.

did not want to be lieutenant governor.

And the way he was so brutally attacked by my opponents, he had to come out- Because he was facing so much incoming, his wife, himself- To just say, "listen, I'm not in this.

I don't want to be in this, like, leave me alone."

It is really sad.

It is really the saddest part of politics is people will pull everybody in.

I mean, I had opponents talk about my son, my mother- My mother's 97 years old.

[laughter] Please leave my mother out of it.

Right?

But it really is a shame.

Like, come at me.

I mean, I put myself out here.

If you want to come at me and talk about me, great.

Gavin> Do you think that endorsement has played as well as you had hoped it would?

I mean, I've heard a lot of people on the campaign trail ...supporters for other candidates at the time who are saying that, you know, Trump didn't endorse their person because, you know, he doesn't know what's going on the ground here.

And it's more political favoritism when it comes to, you know, endorsing you or someone close to the Governor.

I mean, what do you, what do you say to that kind of answer about this?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, I think President Trump would probably be pretty angry if he heard people say that.

I mean, President Trump's been on the scene now for a long time.

President Trump doesn't do what other people want him to do.

President Trump does what he believes is right.

And and he said it very clearly.

So I'm sure, you know, everybody was disappointed that they didn't get it.

The endorsement he gave wasn't just a one line "I'm endorsing," you know, stand behind her.

He gave a litany of reasons of why he endorsed.

And so you should believe the man.

He has always been one to be, promises made, promises kept.

He says what he thinks.

Whether you like that or you don't like that, the President always tells you what's on his mind.

Gavin> Yeah.

And it's been a floodgate opening essentially, since that endorsement.

I mean, do you think that was a defining moment here.

Especially when we see, like, you know, it was kind of a low energy cycle, I feel like and then everything kind of ramped up and then got really messy.

Especially, if you're on social media a lot.

Folks are really coming after you.

Like you were saying also your family too.

I mean, do you think that was, just really in desperation because of that endorsement, trying to hurt you and your campaign?

> Well, everybody warned me when I threw my hat in the ring to run for governor, Gavin, that when you're the leader, everybody's hitting you.

So it's the comfort you should take in that.

You know, when you're the frontrunner, everybody's coming to take you out.

And unfortunately, a lot of my opponents call politics in South Carolina a blood sport.

But they make it a blood sport.

And so, you know, in one way it made me feel good that the polls we were getting, having me on top, were the right polls.

Gavin> Let's go to some of the policy issues.

We have about five minutes left.

You know, you just rolled out your Freedom Agenda.

And at the top of it is fighting to eliminate the income tax and also to lower property taxes.

But if you were to lower property taxes and eliminate income taxes, that's about a 6 billion dollar hole at least from the income tax when it comes to the general fund.

How does that get filled?

Are you concerned about, losing funding for education, for example, if we were to get rid of the income tax altogether, how do you do that?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Well, you know, it's really easy.

You got to cut down spending.

Our spending in South Carolina has far exceeded our growth.

And that's the first thing we have to do.

And so, and I would start right with our own backyards.

Right?

We should put a, put a pay freeze on every elected official.

Again, like I said before, we were offered, the Governor and I were offered pay raises over the last eight years.

We turned them all down.

We didn't feel it was right, while we were sitting in office to take a pay raise.

We knew exactly the job, the salary of the job that we were taking.

And what it was going to pay.

My opponent took a 126 percent pay increase from 98,000 dollars to 208,000 dollars.

That's where we first have to start.

We have to rein in spending.

We have to look at automation because states that have done that, that have leaned on technology- I sit with those lieutenant governors, in conferences all the time.

They're saving billions of dollars by doing that.

Gavin> And another issue that there was talk of, and we would have talked about this during the debate.

But, of course, you know, you didn't participate for reasons, that's understandable.

But there's talk about gambling legislation and permitting a casino in the state.

Would you approve such legislation?

Would you... look to expand gaming in the state as a way to maybe offset those taxes?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> No, you know, what I've said, and I've said this from the beginning, is that, as the CEO of the state, you should look at everything that comes across your desk.

And you should make sure that it works for our state.

And if it does- But it is an issue like gambling- What I've always said is that should get put on a ballot and let the people of South Carolina choose.

Because I have heard, you know, since I threw my hat in the ring and before my Get Out the Vote bus tour- I've had over 200 events across the state, and that's one thing I've heard people for and against.

So let's put it on a ballot.

But we should never put anything into an area where people don't have a say.

Everybody should have a say about who their neighbor is.

Gavin> And what about medical marijuana?

That's also been something that's been up for debate over the years, especially in the Senate with Senator Tom Davis.

And there's been recent federal efforts, to maybe make it more likely that that legislation could advance with the changing of scheduling for medical marijuana in other states.

Would you support legislation for legalizing medical marijuana?

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> You know, what I said- And I agreed with the Governor wholeheartedly on this.

I would have to see what that looks like.

Because what you never want, you know, and I've sat down again with lieutenant governors where it started as medical marijuana, and then it turned pretty much into, you know, recreational.

And so you would have to, I'd have to see the piece of legislation somebody was looking at.

Gavin, my dad died of lung cancer and he never was a smoker.

And he was in such pain, that I probably would have wanted to find anything and everything to give to him to ease his pain.

And so, if it was something that was so narrowly driven that law enforcement could get behind, that would actually help the people of South Carolina, I would not be doing my job if I sat here today and told you I wouldn't look at it.

And I think if you are a good leader, you should look at everything.

People should bring everything to you, whether they think you're gonna agree with it or not, because you owe it to the people that elected you to look at everything.

So and I think on those controversial issues, putting it on the ballot is the right thing.

People are tired of career politicians that think that they know more than the people that voted them in office.

So let's take it to the ballot.

Gavin> Well, there's also been a lot of blowback over economic development incentives, too.

What's your message to maybe an executive or a major business who's trying to invest millions of dollars in the state, maybe billions of dollars.

And also to create hundreds, maybe thousands of jobs.

There's been a lot of back and forth, especially when people talk about Scout Motors.

They talk about other big incentive deals, which, is kind of the standard operating procedure when it comes to attracting major businesses across the country.

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> I think that's the advantage of having a business person at the helm who has negotiated deals, who can give a solid look at the ROI on every deal.

You always want to make sure when you go into a deal that, you know, the benefits for the state are going to far outweigh the risks.

And we've seen that with BMW.

I mean, when BMW came to South Carolina, there were a lot of people that didn't want it.

But now look what it is.

It is- We produce more BMWs here in South Carolina than anywhere in the world.

But it's not just BMW, brought tier two tier three, tier four businesses to come to South Carolina behind them.

And then look at all the entrepreneurs that were able to like, start their businesses because of that.

Those are the kind of economic development that we want here in South Carolina.

Gavin> That's Lt.

Gov Pamela Evette.

Thanks for joining us.

Lt.

Gov.

Evette> Thank you so much, Gavin.

Appreciate it.

We caught up with Attorney General Alan Wilson at Nichols Store in Rock Hill, where I asked him about the final days of the campaign trail.

> Well, instead of making this campaign about me, I'm trying to make it about the voters.

As I talk to people, what I'm hearing- I'm talking to small businesses who are struggling.

I'm talking to families who are having to choose between paying a mortgage, a car payment.

You know, am I going to pay my utility bill or am I gonna buy groceries?

So this campaign to me has really been about messaging to people that, as governor, my number one goal and everything I'm going to do will be to make living in our state more affordable for your families, to make our economy more profitable for your business, and to make government more accountable to you.

Those three things kind of summarize, and I've said it in every debate and every speech.

It summarizes kind of what my goal is, is to make government work for the people or to get government out of the way, because sometimes government is the impediment to the people's success.

So that's kind of been my message to the people.

Gavin> And when you talk about those three issues, and you talk about making things more affordable.

How would you do that?

Can you give some specific examples of how you would make it more affordable?

A.G.

Wilson> Sure.

So first off, I tell people all the time, think of the government as the referees on a football field.

The referees, they're not the ones playing the game.

They're the ones officiating the game, making sure that the rules of the game are, followed fairly, accurately to keep the players safe, to make the rules predictable so that the players can do what they need to do for the spectators.

The government in this particular hypothetical is, are the referees.

The government does not create prosperity.

The government does not create wealth.

The government creates the conditions for it or can take away the conditions for it.

So we- Like for instance, the government sets the tax rate, the government sets a rule or regulation, and then the private sector responds to it.

Look at the store we're in right now.

Obviously, it's heavily regulated, right?

There's a lot of permitting.

There's a lot- They're paying property taxes on this.

All the rules that the government imposes on stores like this increase the cost of the goods that they're serving, selling to the consumers.

Right?

So when the government is creating rules and regulations that are arbitrary, that are convoluted are not predictable, when the government, assesses fees on top of fees, on top of fees on businesses, the cost of doing business goes up, which makes affordability go down.

When you have a tort system where, frivolous lawsuits can be engaged in more freely, that's driving up the cost of housing.

For instance, from 2018 to 2021, there were an average of 65 construction defect lawsuits every year.

Now there's over 400 every year.

You look at the cost of running a small restaurant or a bar, you know, having a liquor liability policy.

You know, in South Carolina, if you want to open up a restaurant and sell alcohol, it cost you 25,000 dollars a year in insurance premiums, just insurance premiums to do business.

In Georgia, that same policy at that same restaurant is 5,000 dollars.

So obviously, when you increase the cost of doing business because of the rules and the laws you're imposing on people, that increases the cost of living on them.

So my goal would be to come in there and do everything I can to lower the cost on businesses and to make living more affordable for families.

Gavin> Does that mean just, you know, not hitting the legislature but really pushing then trying to fix those issues, especially when you talk about you know, the liability insurance- They try to tackle that, it still doesn't seem like it's making much of a difference.

How do you work, to really impose those situations so they can actually fix situations instead of really kind of, I don't know, making them worse in some ways?

A.G.

Wilson> Well it requires building coalitions and relationships with the General Assembly.

I mean, I've been very good at dealing with people who don't always agree with me.

I mean, look, just in this, the election season alone- I mean, I have folks who are my competitors that who are now supporting us because we're building relationships with them.

We're building bridges with them.

Obviously, Congressman Ralph Norman is a true conservative champion up in this area.

Very well respected.

It was an honor to have his endorsement this past week.

Nancy Mace, not a friend of mine at the beginning, but having her endorsement.

Josh Kimbrell.

So the ability to build relationships and build coalitions around ideas and principles is something I'm very good at.

And as governor, that's what I would try to do, to try to build coalitions, to pass the best laws that would do the most good for the most people here in South Carolina.

Gavin> And is that what you want with those endorsements?

I mean, is that the relationship you're showing to try and convey that you can get things done even with your biggest enemies in some ways.

A.G.

Wilson> So and I, and again, I don't consider people my enemy.

I consider them my competitor.

There's a difference, right?

We're competing- It's like a pick up- You and I are playing a game of basketball.

I'm going to try to make baskets on you.

You're gonna try to make baskets on me, and we're gonna do everything we can to stop each other from making baskets.

But that doesn't make you my enemy.

But for me, endorsements don't win races.

But what they do symbolize, is they symbolize a candidate's ability.

It's a signal as to how I will govern.

You know, how I conduct myself as a candidate signals how I will govern.

I said this in my closing statement last night at the debate.

The ability to build a coalition, to bring people together, to do the most good for the most people, is what I want to do as governor.

Gavin> And you were talking about Congressman Norman, and he gave you that endorsement on Monday.

He also mentioned that he's going to create a group, the Legislative Accountability Institute of South Carolina, which will create a DOGE style commission to expose wasteful spending, something you've been talking about, too, with your running mate Mike Reichenbach.

But it will also include publishing voting records and recruiting strong conservative candidates to run for office.

And he said that you're fully supportive of the organization.

So how would that fit into working with the legislature if there may be concern about how they can, how their votes, might play out.

A.G.

Wilson> Well, what I have told Congressman Norman I'm supportive of, is I'm supportive of doing everything we can to promote as conservative a government as we possibly can.

He's going to be doing things in his lane with the organization he's talking about.

I'm going to be doing things in my lane as governor, and I'm going to try to create synergy with him where I can.

To try to obviously- I told him before he decided to endorse me, I said the only commitment I made is that I want to make sure your voice is heard.

And I want to make sure the voices of other people, whose candidates are no longer in this race, that their voices are heard.

For me, it's about building coalitions.

There will be other groups out there that may challenge candidates and recruit candidates.

But as governor, I'm going to be focused on building something, not tearing something down.

That's gonna be where my focus will be.

And Congressman Norman has a following, and a lot of people are going to be, probably wanting to support his efforts.

And I know that they will do a lot of good for the state.

I'm going to be working with him, but I'm going to be working with the speaker, the president of the Senate.

I'm gonna be working with the Freedom Caucus.

I'm going to be working with a lot of people.

So my intent is to, like I said, build a coalition to do the most good for the most people that we can.

Gavin> Attorney General, we did see that, you know, you didn't get President Trump's endorsement, but you do have a lot of folk's endorsements like we're talking around the state, State House, the congressional delegation.

But we've now seen, at least two of the candidates, lose their gubernatorial primaries when it comes to Trump's endorsement, including Iowa Representative Randy Feenstra.

And then last night, lieutenant governor for, Burt Jones in Georgia.

So when we talk about the Trump endorsement, do you think it's maybe not as as heavy of a weight as it used to be?

Not as much of a golden ticket, especially when you, see possibilities of what could happen here in South Carolina with Governor Evette, Lieutenant Governor Evette?

A.G.

Wilson> Well, look, I think Donald Trump is incredibly popular in South Carolina.

People love the President.

They love his policies.

They love his agenda.

I love his policies.

I love his agenda.

I have defended the President.

I've defended his agenda in a court of law.

And I'm going to continue to do so as governor.

But here's the thing.

People also can separate, you know, the President may endorse a candidate- If that candidate, if they don't even understand who that candidate is, if that candidate is not defined, if that candidate has not demonstrated an ability to lead.

The President's endorsement alone will not carry that candidate.

And I think that was a fatal flaw in my opponent's campaign, is that they were expecting- And that is why I personally believe they did not participate in some of the debates, because they anticipated the, the President's endorsement.

And they just felt that there would be this groundswell of support that would carry her in.

But at the end of the day, you have to have something to sell, right?

The President's endorsement can amplify your candidacy.

But if your candidacy is basically just a hollow shell, like, "I'm... I'm a big Trump supporter," and then Trump supports you, but what is he actually supporting?

So this is not, this is not a referendum on Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not on the ballot.

I'm on the ballot.

My opponent is on the ballot.

And what I'm trying to do is I'm telling people, don't vote for me based on who individually endorsed or supported me.

Vote for me based on who I am as a person and as a candidate.

But, if you're looking for third-party validators, over 80 percent of the sheriffs in the state endorsed me because of my record on public safety.

I have a record on public safety to run on, but I have third-party validators.

Right?

You look at the legislators, you look at the conservative groups that have supported me.

So endorsements are a third-party validators of an established record.

She doesn't have an established record to third-party validate.

So, I don't know if that makes any sense.

But that's what I think is going on here.

Gavin> But do you think he made a mistake?

Would you take his endorsement?

A.G.

Wilson> Of course I would.

I'm formally endorsing President Trump right now.

I endorsed him last night in front of the media scrum.

I endorsed him, back during when he ran.

I endorse him now.

Again, the President is very popular.

And of course, I would want his endorsement, but I believe the people of South Carolina are going to vote for the candidate they believe is best for South Carolina.

Not the candidate the President endorses.

Gavin> We have about less than five minutes left Attorney General, and I want to ask you about some other issues too, including, you know, lowering income taxes to zero that everyone keeps talking about and saying that they can do.

Obviously, the legislature will do that.

We've been lowering the taxes, gradually.

But if we get down to zero, it's about a six billion dollar hole we're talking about there in the general fund.

How do you, propose to fill that?

Would you be worried about how that could affect education spending, for example?

A.G.

Wilson> No, not at all.

So first off, look at it like this, Gavin, over the last ten years, South Carolina state government spending has grown at an average rate of six and a half percent.

Our population on average has grown at about 3.2 percent.

Which means we are spending twice as fast as we are growing as a state.

Had we brought the rate of government spending down to the rate of population growth over that same ten year period, we could have returned nearly 20 billion dollars in permanent tax cuts.

So what I would propose, my plan for eliminating the income tax it would be is this, each year we're going to look at what the rate of population growth was for that year.

And I'm willing to negotiate maybe plus two percent, you know, give yourself a little bit of wiggle room.

But whatever the, rate of population growth was from the previous year, that's the rate of spending growth.

So if the population growth, rose two percent from last year, and we have up to- You know, like we're spending like at 12 percent higher than we did the previous year, then we're only going to spend two percent more.

That other ten percent is going back to the people.

Now... you are right, 45 to 47 percent of state government revenue comes from the income tax.

So how do you fund core functions of government?

Well, as the income tax slowly goes down over time because each year we're keeping the rate capped.

That money is going where?

It's going in your pocket.

Are you going to bury it in the back lawn?

Are you going to stick it in your mattress?

Are you going to hire more people to come work in your store?

Are you going to buy- Are you going to expand your store.

Are you going to go consume things.

Are you going to buy things.

Of course you are.

So as the income tax comes down, then all of a sudden other taxes go up.

Another thing that you're going to do is you're going to invite people from outside of South Carolina to want to invest in our state.

Gavin> What about when it comes to additional sources of revenue like gambling and gaming?

I mean, we talked about this.

We saw this on the debate the other night.

But what's your stance on expanding gaming in the state?

Also, would you support a casino in the state?

A.G.

Wilson> Well, I was pretty clear- You know, obviously I signed a pledge.

And I tell people all the time, you may not agree with my position on gambling, but I'd rather have your trust and respect than your vote.

That sounds like the worst political thing you could ever say, but I've just come to the conclusion after talking to law enforcement, talking to other states where, they say that they're- The people that build the casinos may be good people, but there are elements that follow that, that type of industry that you don't want in your state.

And they've had to deal with it.

There's been corollaries, rises in crime, rises in drug use rises in other illicit activity.

And those are things that I'm very concerned about.

Also... I don't think South Carolina is made to look like Las Vegas.

So I've made a decision.

I put it out there, on my opposition.

Now, you know, what people do online is a whole 'nother issue.

But a brick and mortar casino is something that I'm very concerned about.

Gavin> Attorney General Alan Wilson, thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

A.G.

Wilson> Thank you Gavin.

Appreciate you.

For South Carolina SCETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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