It's the Sound of ideas Reporters Roundtable from Ideastream Public Media, i'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us on radio, on WKSU, and on television in our new timeslot, 5 p.m.

on WVIZ PBS.

The corruption trial against two former First Energy executives ended in a hung jury.

Now what?

High speed chases by Cuyahoga County sheriff's deputies have resulted in the deaths of two innocent bystanders.

Their families have filed suit.

Pothole complaints are way up and more traffic annoyance is on the way.

We'll explain.

And remember the Ferris wheel at the I-X Indoor Amusement Park?

Well, it's for sale.

And is your backyard big enough for that?

Joining me to discuss these stories and more in studio, Gabriel Kramer and Deputy Editor Glenn Forbes.

Gabe's a reporter here at Glenn's and editor here.

Good to have both of you with us.

Good to be here.

Happy Friday man.

Happy Friday to you.

I look forward to that every time you're on the show.

And from our Statehouse News Bureau and actually gracing us today with her presence in studio in Cleveland instead of remotely from Columbus, a woman who bypasses Ferris wheels for terror inducing roller coasters.

Always.

No hands.

Fair.

Karen Kasler.

Absolutely.

Absolu Very good to have you with us.

And we're honored that you showed up in person just for the debut of our hour long 5 p.m.

Wvas broadcast.

There's no other reason that you would have been in Cleveland on this particular course.

Not.

Go Guardians.

Okay.

So we get that at the beginning of every show.

And today's particularly important.

It's home opener day today.

Finally we made it.

So great.

You got here yesterday.

You're going to be at the game this afternoon.

Looks like weather is going to clear up.

Let's let's cross our fingers.

It's been a long time since we've had.

Well, last year's home opener was frigid, so it's got to be better than that.

Do you have your parka just in case?

I have everything.

I have a I have a poncho.

I have a I have everything.

I love it.

All right.

If you want to weigh in on any of our topics today, perhaps the apparel you should be wearing at the Guardian's game.

You can shoot us an e-mail.

So I at Ideo stream.org.

And right now let's get ready to roundtable.

Summit County Judge Susan Baker Ross declared a mistrial in the state corruption case against two former FirstEnergy executives, all related to the H.B.

six bribery scandal, after a jury failed to reach a verdict in Karen.

What comes next?

Well, the I think there were a lot of people who were expecting this kind of a result because it had been so long.

The jury had asked nine questions.

Only a few of them were made public.

But then the day before, they indicated to the judge that they were at an impasse, they had told her and she told them to go back into deliberations.

So I don't think this was a huge surprise.

And now what happens is, now that we have a mistrial, there's going to be another pretrial conference coming up.

And the process kind of starts all over again, because Attorney General Dave Yost, who filed these charges against former CEO Chuck Jones and former Vice President Michael Dowling, says he wants to retry them.

The state will retry them, so they will be back at it.

In that case, the defense had asked for a dismissal of the charges and the judge didn't allow that.

Yeah, they filed motions for acquittal.

Basically saying that the case, of course, involves a payment made to the late Sam Randazzo as he was becoming Public Utilities Commission chair in 2019, which was just before House Bill six, the billion dollar nuclear power plant bailout went through.

And, prosecutors say that was a bribe.

And lawyers for Jones and Dowling say no.

That was a payment to him, to clients he represented.

He stole that money.

And so he also even wasn't a public official at the time the payment was made.

So the argument spent, there's no bribery.

And that's what the defense's argument was.

Obviously, it had some weight with at least a couple of the jurors because they they did not find him guilty.

I did not find them guilty.

And when you say a couple of jurors, Glenn, that's specifically the case.

We were able to hear from several of the jurors after the trial.

And, they both indicated that at one point it was 10 to 2 in favor of conviction on some of the charges, at least at some point, it was like 8 to 4.

But the majority thought that a crime had happened.

There were some, though, they just weren't convinced.

And one of the keys to that, not being convinced it came in the question that they did send that we do know about to the judge, which was, can you bribe somebody if they're not a public official yet?

Right.

We were kind of watching this, the last week or so as it was coming through, and we're saying, okay, they're having trouble here, like, this is this is not, this is not going well.

It doesn't appear that they're going to be able to reach, unanimous verdict.

And of course, they did not.

As you mentioned, Mark Bowman was a juror.

He spoke to a number of reporters.

He said there's anywhere between 8 and 4 to 10 to 2.

On on the guilty side, of course, you need all 12.

Jackie Stewart, was a juror who spoke to the Akron Beacon Journal.

She said the bribery charge is where they had the most dissent, and that's the biggest verdict.

So basically, she said we could move forward.

That's the biggest one.

We had to decide.

And both Baughman and Stewart said there were just some people who said, well, my mind's not going to change.

You're not going to change my mind.

They were they were, many jurors were willing to continue to to deliberate.

But when you have a couple jurors saying, well, yeah, my mind's not going to change.

Yeah.

We've been at it for nine days.

Yeah, we've been at the trial for weeks and weeks.

Right.

What do you do?

Yeah.

Karen, what's interesting here is we know a lot more than the jury knew.

For example, how Sam Randazzo died, which was that he, died by suicide.

We know about Larry Householder, the former House speaker, and his conviction in relation to HB six, and how that may tie in to the whole scandal.

The jury didn't hear this stuff.

Right.

And you don't know what jurors knew coming in from just living in Ohio.

But they were obviously under orders to not consume, media and to really stay away from that kind of stuff.

So it was it's interesting to watch trials like this because, like you said, we knew more than the jury knew.

And I have to give a shout out to the judge, Susan Baker Ross in Summit County, for allowing media like me in Columbus to watch by zoom, because it really helps make the process more transparent and helps me explain what happened.

Yeah, I jumped in when, when John Husted, the U.S.

Senator from Ohio, was doing his testimony and you could jump in as a media member and take a look at that.

What she did not only is to tell the lawyers that you can't get into some of these areas, but she admonished the witnesses to to not mistakenly say these types of things.

And that's that's the caution that anybody who's involved in cases like this has to really listen to, because you don't want to give the jury information they're not supposed to have.

And actually, that kind of happened during deliberations.

There were some exhibits that some evidence that got to the jury that shouldn't have gotten to the jury so that, you know, the judge apologized for that, saying she didn't know how that happened.

But that's another interesting note here.

And all this.

Yeah.

In fact, it was, I think, during the session that you and I were both watching where there was the Mount Rushmore.

Oh yeah.

Picture.

And that wasn't supposed to get in.

And somehow it they were accusing the prosecution of trying to backdoor it.

And I thought that one was really interesting because there were references to that, but that wasn't supposed to be in evidence that that came up in the federal trial as well.

And this is, of course, the meme of Mount Rushmore with, a couple of the Chuck, Chuck Jones, who was the CEO at the time.

Right.

And Michael Dowling, who the two of the two defendants and Sam Anderson and one other, and basically saying, basically celebrating that, House Bill is moving forward.

And Glenn, the the real close legal watchers of this, would have seen that the prosecution had some other issues from the very beginning, including, folks who didn't testify.

Yeah.

And I, I think it's easy for us to forget how jury, how juries are put together.

Right?

I mean, they are looking for people who don't have any knowledge of the case.

There's this idea that when you put the jury together, they should be completely like a completely blank slate.

So when we talk about, oh, there's they had a burning question of how they knew Sam Randazzo died, but they didn't know how.

Right.

It's like, you know, and then they go after the trial and then they find out, this is what, Jackie Stewart told the Akron Beacon Journal.

And they look after and they said, oh, that's you know, he died by suicide.

So the prosecution sometimes starts, in a high profile case like this.

They, they start a little bit behind the eight ball at times.

But like you said, there were some other issues.

His lead investigator never testified.

He resigned to avoid being disciplined amid an internal investigation.

In a separate case, Jackie Stewart also told the Akron Beacon Journal she wished the prosecution had laid out a more clear timeline on some of this stuff.

She felt like, they could have done a better job there.

But yeah, some evidence that that couldn't be submitted.

The the knowledge gap.

This is this will be your favorite one, Mike.

They were confused by some of the acronyms, and, I don't know, a lot of these.

I do know Puco.

I know the public utilities, I know HB six, House Bill six.

We all know that one.

They said some of the acronyms, the FEMA, fees for energy solutions, but PPA, DMR okay, wait.

If you're going to say these, you better know what they are.

I don't complex, complex information complex.

This kind of this alphabet soup.

I'm gonna ask Lee Barr to get on that.

So it's PPA, EPA, dmr, and I will check any thoughts.

I we're going to get them to leave.

We'll get them.

We are going to have this for this segment.

And it really also shows how complicated the federal trial was with, householder and former Ohio Republican Party chair Matt Borgias, where the jury did convict those defendants and the complicated information all I mean, we're talking about this trial, hundreds of exhibits, dozens of witnesses.

I mean, six weeks of testimony here.

And I should also correct myself here on the meme that we were talking about.

It was actually Michael Dowling, Sam Randazzo, and then to lobbyists who were pictured on that, as opposed to Chuck Jones, it wasn't to me, you're correcting me.

That's okay.

You can correct.

But but it was one of those things that shouldn't have been in evidence but certainly was referred to.

And so it was one of the concerns.

All right.

By the way, just right off top of my head, I figured out that purchase power agreement is PPA.

Oh, nice.

Okay.

Keep your head off.

Yeah, just off that my head.

I'm not looking at the screen that leads them to me, but I got to tell you, that does make the important point that you can't be using initials and acronyms when you're trying to talk to people about things because they're not in your business and they don't know.

And that's why we try to fight them on this show.

Okay, I feel vindicated.

The jury did not reach a verdict in this case, but they did unanimously say that we should not have acronyms.

Right.

I want something along those lines.

I'll give you that.

Let's move on to our next story.

The, and we're going by the way, that story is going to continue will be, certainly, covering if, if and when another trial happens, the families of two innocent bystander women killed in separate high speed pursuits by the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's downtown safety patrol have sued the county.

Glenn, let's talk about the scope.

And I'll first of all, that safety probably has a different name now.

But what is the scope of, of these lawsuits goes back to, 20, 25, two women, were killed five months apart.

Sharda Elder and Tommy Westmoreland, both were struck by, fleeing suspects.

In, in in these cases, the family's attorney, Stanley Jackson.

These are civil suits.

Of course.

He said that the pursuits were based on minor traffic violations, and essentially they never should have happened.

Both of these chases got up over 100mph.

He's saying that that's way too dangerous for traffic violations.

There's no reason to continue, that pursuit.

Interestingly, both pursuits involve the same sheriff's deputy, Casey Loudermilk.

I should note he was cleared of any criminal charges, but after the second, death, he was placed on leave after that second crash, and, as you mentioned, the state downtown safety patrol has since been renamed.

But there's a lot here.

As you mentioned to the Chase policy, has also changed.

And we're going to get into that.

Yeah, let's do that with Gabe.

So the, I mean, these are tragic incidents.

The police are trying to pursue somebody in these both of these cases.

I think it was traffic stops in the middle of downtown, chased after folks who decided not to stop.

And it ended in these tragedies.

What is the change, then, that the sheriff's office has implemented?

So this new policy limits chases to, I guess, suspects that are suspected to be violent felons or drunk drivers, after two crashes.

So they have to have some information on what their what they're who they're after.

But the the pushback is from Stanley Jackson, the attorney, saying, you know, we should have been involved in this.

We should have had some input, from community.

But particularly from the elder and Westmoreland families.

You know, there was efforts to hear from the county who declined to comment on the situation.

You know, I talked to police officers, two who feel frustrated because if you have a policy where you can't pursue, then people can basically act with abandon and just, you know, take off and you can't chase me.

So they get upset about that.

On the other hand, if a chase can end in the death of an innocent life or the taking of an innocent life, it the a whole other another level.

And that's essentially what Jackson is saying, is that they want to put an end to these chases completely for the sake of just keeping people alive.

By the way, DMR distribution Modernization rider, suddenly that came to me as well.

I didn't know that one at all.

I mean, I don't know what any.

That's a first time you ever heard that.

All right.

According to a report from the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, by the end of last year, 14 of the state's 88 counties had agreements to cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement efforts or the U.S.

Marshals Service.

And it was just a couple a few years ago.

Gabe, you've spent some time looking at the agreement between Ice and law enforcement, different types of agreements explain what those are and why counties might be entering into them.

Yeah.

So they're they're called 287 G contracts.

And there's three different types of contracts.

One of which is what we call the jail enforcement model.

And I'll try to wrap this up quickly.

But you mean the gem gem?

I'm not going to take it off.

I'm sorry that I'm I'm sorry that.

But the jail enforcement model, which essentially allows, law enforcement to identify documented immigrants in their custody, whether they're in their jail and place them into immigration proceedings, whatever that may be, from the state level or the local level.

There's a task force model, and this one is the most common one.

It gives officers, immigration enforcement authority.

So when they're out patrolling and they can ask if they ask people if they're undocumented, at a traffic stop and share that information with Ice.

And the last one is called a warrant surface officer program, where ice comes to your sheriff's office or your police department.

Train certifies officers to execute administrative warrants.

So that's kind of the different ones we're working on or that that we're hearing about there.

The ACLU did a public records request and provide that information to us earlier this week to say that they found that 19 different counties have, have have gone into contracts with Ice for 287.

I thought it was 14.

Well, well, that's what the ACLU has had from their public records request with what Ice is putting on its website, is that there are 14 in Ohio, 14 counties.

And there are there is a menu.

There's three things.

So some of them are doing one, some are doing the other, and some are doing all three, including Portage County.

Yeah.

So Portage.

So in in our coverage area in northeast Ohio, it's Lake County, Portage County and the Spencer Police Department in Medina County.

So Joga Lake, Mahoning.

Well, so those are that so a little different than the 27 G is the Ice jail service.

So you can get in a contract with Ice to hold undocumented immigrants in their jail.

And that one has a bigger financial benefit to, to hold people in jail.

The Ice provides you a pretty hefty, you know, lot of cash to, to hold, undocumented immigrants.

Now, the 287 G contracts, those don't have as large of a financial kickback.

In fact, ACLU, and the Ohio Immigration Alliance are complaining that that money that is, you know, tax dollars essentially is being used for such a thing.

But I spoke I reached out to those counties over to, the Spencer Police Department of any county, Lorain County or Lake County officials and, Portage Portage County officials.

No response from this week.

A year ago, I was able to reach Butler County in southwest Ohio.

Now, now, a lot of what we're hearing of these 2070 contracts, mostly southwest Ohio, greater Dayton, Cincinnati area.

I spoke with the sheriff there, Richard Jones, and he said, look, the benefit to me is that it allows us to patrol, our region allows us to have these powers to what he said is keep criminals off the streets.

If you'd like to weigh in on any of these topics, including the immigration issue and cooperating with Ice, you can send an email to s o I at Ideo stream.org, and we'll work those into the conversation.

And one thing I want to add in speaking with representatives from the ACLU earlier this week, is they're fearful of expansion of this.

You know, they think that, you know, this is a way to appeal to a base of to Donald Trump's base who are yearning for this enforcement because these are areas that don't necessarily have a strong immigration population.

And there was a representative in that meeting to talk about how, you know, there's concern about this expanding into colleges and universities, which hasn't happened in a while yet.

But in Florida, there's been a few different campus police departments that have signed on the 2070 contracts.

All right.

We will definitely keep an eye on that.

And what's interesting is you mentioned money is a big driver of this, and we know that Ice has lots of money.

Yeah.

You know, there's a debate now about, funding of those types of things.

But that funding flowing through to local communities, you can see why they'd say we want a piece of that.

Right.

Question is, are people pushing back against that?

Are there people in these communities that are saying, we don't want to cooperate with this organization?

Definitely.

Especially with the jail models, because in in northwest Ohio, greater Toledo region, there's the Northwest Ohio Corrections facility that signed on to be a holding facility for undocumented and undocumented immigrants.

And there was there was a big debate last year of, you know, this is going to bring a lot of money, but a lot of people were saying, well, this isn't what we want in our communities.

And that's what we're hearing from the Ohio Immigration Alliance, saying that, you know, this type of enforcement makes people feel maybe unwelcome, maybe untrustworthy of of these law enforcement agencies.

Okay.

The crew of Artemis two has left the Earth's orbit on its way to the moon.

The crew lifted off from Kennedy Space Center on Wednesday for a ten day mission.

And liftoff.

The crew of Artemis two, now bound for the moon.

Humanity's next great voyage begins.

I don't know, I thought that was pretty cool when I was watching.

Very cool.

Yeah, nice.

A little break in the day.

The Artemis crew is expected to make its closest pass across the far side of the moon on Monday.

Queue up, Pink Floyd, before beginning the return trip back to Earth.

The success of the mission, which was clear, which has Cleveland fingerprints all over it, will pave the way for an anticipated return to the lunar surface in 2028, with the goal of establishing a permanent lunar base.

And Glenn, I mentioned that Cleveland's fingerprints are all over this.

Let's talk about why.

Well, the quote is, they say the road to the moon does run through Ohio.

That was that was the trick.

And it's by the way, it's just as potholed as the moon.

And we're going to talk about that a minute to.

Very good I knew you're going to work that.

And that quote was from Darcy DeAngelis.

He's a NASA Glenn system safety engineer.

When you think about both Cleveland and the, Neil Armstrong test facility in Sandusky, that's where Orion went through some rigorous testing at splashdown.

It was disassembled.

It was brought back to Ohio for further testing.

And, there was another representative from NASA who said, it's really the only place you can do this kind of one stop, shop, really hard environmental tests.

So we've got the infrastructure to do it.

So a lot of tests on Orion, several years ago, before they were able to, to launch this.

So a lot of people at NASA, Glenn, are watching this with a lot of pride as well.

They had a big role in, in what's going on here as NASA organizations probably throughout the country have absolutely here.

But like you said, especially Cleveland, Sandusky, this was a combination both of American and European engineering.

So not only here in Ohio and throughout the U.S, but in Europe as well.

Game has been more than 50 years since the last time NASA launched a manned lunar mission.

This isn't quite a lunar mission.

It's a drive by.

Yeah, but, I wonder about inspiring.

And you, you host the show news dept here on WBEZ.

What does something like this do?

And I'm sure you'll be covering it, to inspire young people.

Well, not to be self-promotional, but.

Yeah, sorry.

Our show news that there's later today, Fridays at 1 p.m.

and Z. And we get a lot of engagement on stories about outer space and the I mean, obviously the science behind it, but I think there's a lot of wonder with the youth about this.

And, you know, not today's show, but next week's show is all about outer space.

It's and talking about Artemis two and Ohio's history with exploring outer space and the kids love it.

I mean, they really get a lot of engagement.

They love riding in.

They love doing the poll questions.

So there's a lot of interest in in this space exploration.

So I think, yeah, absolutely.

This could inspire some kids to want to get involved and go to the moon or be involved.

NASA Glenn down the street.

So I think that this is a very exciting time for kids.

And I remember, man, I remember John Glenn going out into space as a young kid and being a first grade and and seeing that, and that was really awesome, man.

That was really cool.

And I have to imagine that, you know, other first graders or any kids in school will feel the same type of way.

I yeah, you almost made it seem like you felt old by saying that, but that was I was I think that's that's when he ran in space and he was my, my first interview with anybody famous at college at Bowling Green was John Glenn, who was coming through on a tour to try to retire his presidential campaign debt.

Okay.

That's how old I am.

It was after he ran for president.

Okay.

By the way, 1:00 is the live airing on Wcvb.

You can catch news dept online.

Yeah, you can stream it on our PBS platforms, YouTube, anywhere that, you can find ideas, stream content available on demand.

And I think you can go to idea stream.org/news app and find it there as well.

And Karen and we talked about watching the launch and how exciting.

It was a little nerve wracking to all of us who live through tragedy.

The space shuttle challenger back that era when I was in college.

So when you watch that, there's a little bit of nerve wracking trepidation.

Absolutely.

It's it's it's not a done deal until it's up.

I mean, we've seen what's happened and it just when you watch the video, just the raw power that is behind that.

And I got to tell you, the inspiration does apparently work a little bit because as a parent of a child who is now in college hoping to build rockets, hoping to do a internship at NASA, Glenn, there's definitely some inspiration there to to do this.

Did I tell you last week Karen's a good time?

If by good time you mean drinking expired Tab Cola, pouring over budget and bragging about your son.

Yeah, this is exactly for my kiddo.

Can't outfit for an hour a third of the way there.

By the way, it has to be expired.

Well, they don't make it.

Has to be, has to be.

Does have to be.

And I think she has some stash in the basement.

So you, me, let me tell you, that was an incredible.

It seems like an incredible trip around the moon, but I think I'd rather make that than drive some of Ohio's roads.

And I mentioned that they were kind of moon pocked.

Get ready, drivers day.

First of all, the official state flower of Ohio, the orange barrel blossom blooming on roses everywhere.

And I don't know about you, but I'm severely allergic to those.

The Ohio Department of Transportation announced a slate of highway projects, including $3.4 billion in new ones and the continuation of several multi-year projects.

Glenn, let's talk about, what we can expect, from some of these projects and basically anybody on the west side of Cleveland going on I-90 anywhere West is going to be.

I was just going to say that's the one near and dear to our hearts.

Mike, the one on 90 West is, you a rocky, Rocky river and Rocky River, right?

Yeah.

And, me living in West Lake, that is going to continue only two and a half years to go on that one, Mike.

It's going to be the continuation of a $173 million worth of work.

You mentioned I-90, the overhauls from West Boulevard, through Lakewood into, Hilliard Boulevard and Rocky River.

Various ramp closings, lane changes, McKinley Avenue entrances currently closed, lane restrictions in place.

All that good stuff.

We're talking about opening day.

Well, just south of, Progressive Field.

There's a major, six year, $328 million reconstruction, Lane closings, lane, I-90, I-77.

Are you there?

Yeah.

The 9077 interchange.

The highway is going to remain open.

There will be some brief closings during off peak periods.

There's.

Wait.

There's more.

Was driving through Lorain County, yesterday on my way to Sandusky.

A lot of barrels over there.

That's the second year of a $116 million worth of work.

90, from Ohio, 611 and Avon to the Turnpike.

And then, if you're a Cedar Point fan, there's going to be some work along the Rye Beach Road interchange to the Sandusky city line that's going to go through 2029.

Feels like I'm reading from.

Right.

Let's keep going.

Let's go, baby, let's get out of Cuyahoga.

What else we got?

So in Summit County, there's a widening of I-77, between Kent Road in Everett, northeast of Akron.

And then there's, route eight in the Akron area between Perkins and Glenwood Avenue.

You sound like Samson all right now.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah we do.

That's good.

Well, traffic.

Well, hopefully there might be some traffic coming with that in his future.

Talking about these streets.

Right.

But another replacement of a high level bridge on Ohio eight.

So, the the I-77 projects must wrap in 2027.

The Ohio eight is supposed to wrap up for 2028.

If I may add about the potholes there so bad that I've gotten used to just anticipating, where I'll be driving, somebody asked if I could switch lanes because I know there's a pothole coming.

Exactly.

I've got the memorized.

Karen.

Odot.

It's going to be everywhere.

Barrels are going to be everywhere.

You really got to be careful.

Slow down.

Absolutely.

I mean, there have been several instance instances in the last couple of months when we had snowplows on the road, snowplows getting hit, road crews getting hit.

And so Odot says it's it's definitely something you should pay attention to.

And also there's a I think there's an overall concern in general about funding all these projects because the gas tax money is not nearly enough in many cases, because you have more fuel efficient cars.

So people are using less gas.

All right.

Let's dig in on potholes.

It's been a doozy.

Yesterday on I-90, a giant hole kept poaching tires.

So people are heading downtown on 90 right about Warren Road.

Our producer's partner got nailed in that one, I'm told $1,000 damage.

The rim got damaged as well off the highways.

Cleveland's roads are more minor friendly than ever.

Our Abby Marshall crunched the numbers and found 15,000 pothole repair requests this year, up 50% from last year.

She went out and stood next to a road and and, took some video of that as she did a story.

We been in a roller coaster weather pattern.

That's what caused those potholes, right, Glen?

Yeah.

1500, 1515 hundred pothole requests.

What do they say, 15,000.

You did say it feels like 50.

It feels like.

It feels like 15,000.

And the one on I-90 yesterday, he's got a count for more than one.

That's got to be way more.

I learned so much about potholes from Abby Marshall this week.

I got to tell you, I never, knew, you know, some of these things that we're going to get into.

But if you think about it, it seems like in the last, what, month or so it's been freeze, and then we thaw, and then we freeze again, and then we thaw again, and hopefully we're thawed.

But then we're going to freeze again next week.

When that happens, you know, you've got water that gets into the potholes.

That's according to John Laird, the city's director of public works.

You just keep doing it over and over again.

So it pops out the patches, it pops out the patches.

So as many of these kind of freeze thaw patterns that we have, the more and more potholes, are going to pop up.

And when you think about, you know, we were kind of in this deep freeze starting before Thanksgiving, and we kind of finally thawed out.

And now we're going back and forth.

We have these false springs, and then we go back to winter.

And luckily for opening day would be nice today, but then we might freeze again next week.

So it's just this constant cycle.

It's like playing whac-a-mole, with these potholes.

And I saw the city is struggling because you don't have asphalt plants up and running at this time of year.

So they got to make their own, which means they have to prioritize, prioritize only the the big main roads.

Eventually when that asphalt starts coming, they can do a little bit more, but they're they're struggling to keep up.

When I talk about what I learned.

So yes, hot asphalt factories do close for the winter, so the city creates its own supply.

They do that by using their, recycled material.

How about this?

Last year, the city created 982 tons of fill.

Okay, lay it on us.

Equivalent to the weight of 150 Africans.

Who comes up with this stuff?

I mean, it's like.

It's like a day in the life right now.

We know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall, right?

In this case, now we know how many, how much asphalt it takes for 150 African elephants to balance the scale.

So the city.

Exactly.

And the city says, hey, we're not an asphalt plant.

We've got to start, as you said, stick to the main roads.

They don't have enough asphalt, you know, to do everything.

Interestingly enough, there are still 334 requests for, service on these potholes that remain open.

But just because one is closed, that doesn't necessarily mean those potholes have been filled.

Sometimes they're duplicate requests.

It's an inaccurate location.

So as of a couple of days ago, the city data still shows 334 requests remain open.

But as you said, an increase from last year, certainly up 50%, according to Abby Marshall.

And this is from the 311, request lines, from the city at 1500 there and 1500, not 15,000.

Correct.

Real quickly, the biggest pothole we've ever seen in Cleveland.

That's the sinkhole that we, that we have over on, West Third Street at Saint Clair.

What's the story with that?

Now?

Intersection still shut down.

Repair work continues.

Drivers are navigating detours.

No clear timeline right now on when that intersection will fully reopen.

Division of Water told channel five crews are working as efficiently and safely as possible, but repairs could take weeks.

As you mentioned, the same.

A massive, sinkhole on the Near West.

My advice is just buy, like a thousand cans of great foam and just start spraying, right?

Yeah, we'll get it.

We'll get it for peanuts.

Something.

Sure.

All right.

There are many more stories to talk about here on the Sound of Ideas Reporters roundtable, including a chance for Karen to tell us what she'll be eating at the Guardian's home opener.

But first, let's hand it over to Stephanie Haney to tell us what's in store next week on The Sound of Ideas.

Hey, Stephanie.

Mike, we've got a lot of variety coming up for you next week on The Sound of Ideas.

On Monday, we'll be bringing you a conversation with women who are leading the way when it comes to innovation in artificial intelligence in Northeast Ohio.

This is from a conversation that was held at the City Club of Cleveland.

Then on Tuesday.

We're talking about water safety for kids as things start to warm up.

Finally, here in Northeast Ohio, we'll be talking with leaders of Aqua missions.

And this is something we're producing in collaboration with students at Cleveland State University.

Then on Wednesday, we'll be talking with people who are railing against the THC infused products ban here in Ohio.

This just went into effect on March 19th, and leaders in the industry are saying that it is not what they want.

It's the save Ohio Beverages campaign.

So we'll hear from them.

And then on Thursday, we bring you our latest installment of our music podcast, shuffle with Idea Streams.

Amanda Rabinowitz of course, everything is subject to change if there is breaking news, but that's the line up for now.

And if you have something you'd like us to talk about on The Sound of Ideas, please send us a note.

You can email us at c Nadia stream.org.

Back to you in the studio Mike.

Thank you Stephanie.

It sounds like a great lineup of shows.

And if you're watching on Wbai and don't listen to KSU 89 seven KSU, you should because it's great substantive programing every morning at 9 a.m.

they also play it at 9 p.m.. A lot of ways to check that out and listen on radio.

Watch us on television on Friday nights in like a lion, out like a lamb.

Or is it in like a lamb out like a lion?

It's something about March.

But if.

What if the lion and the lamb just keep trading places, which you just talked about.

Glenn.

It's happened every other minute in March in Cleveland.

Weather roared Tuesday, spawning severe storms, packing near hurricane force wind last month of the year or last day of the month, torrential rains and at least one tornado.

Power was out like a lion in a lot of places.

Game.

You went out and did a great piece on talking to some of the folks affected by this, but power was out really across the region in various spots.

Oh yeah, it was pretty wild there.

And the entire state, it was like 120,000 people who are homes that had lost power.

And Cuyahoga County, when I was chasing people up and down on on Wednesday, it was, about 20,000 now.

And across the state it's about 1100 people that are without power.

So for the most part repaired, but took several days.

And people are really complaining because yes, it caused a lot of damage, but places had to close.

I mean, like businesses had to close for a day or two.

And that's struggling.

Business people are without power for a few days.

I mean, you know, the of the charger phone.

How reliant are we on on our phones and technology these days?

And I understand for a lot of people they're saying, okay, well this is weather this happens.

But a lot of people are complaining that this is happening frequently with first energy.

Three times in the Tremont neighborhood, a lot of parts of the West Side, Ohio City, three times for, for for an extended period of time in the west side of Cleveland.

And people are saying like, this is a constant now and, you know, people are complaining about first energy.

We spent 20 minutes ago talking about first energy.

And it's scandal, right?

A year ago, I did some reporting in Lakewood where First Energy held a town hall meeting to address issues and make these promises.

And everybody was angry.

So, you know, people are really upset about what first energy is doing.

And I spoke with a business owner, a bakery in Fremont called Levin, and he was talking about how he's, you know, this affects his business.

Yes.

But he's upset with first energy that he's considering switching companies.

Can we can we hear from him?

Is three days without revenue in the first quarter of the year.

That's that's a big deal.

It's a huge hit for my employees who aren't making money when we're closed.

It's a huge hit for the bakery in general.

It's pretty rough.

so he's he was certainly upset to have to close his business for the day, which has happened three times this year.

But he's really wants to hold it there.

First energy to say like what is going to happen to fix these issues.

And I wonder if is it just for energy?

But Cleveland public power power lost, but not nearly as severely as first energy.

And then the last few months it's been first energy.

That's been the constant.

I should just call my daughter and get her on the air again, because she lives in Lakewood and was again out.

I was kind of happy because she came over for dinner.

Nice.

But, but the fact the matter is, they were out for two days, and I said, hey, are they getting that back on?

And she goes, I think they get a pass this time, because the lines behind my house melted, apparently hit by lightning or something of that nature.

But they've, but a lot of people were without power.

It always is.

A it's a huge ordeal for all of them.

And in Wayne and Georgia County, tornadoes were confirmed during all of this.

What what caused all this power outage?

Yes.

In in in Georgia County there.

That we touched down on March 31st of this week.

It was an EF one tornado, pretty severe, tornado about 100mph, caused some damage.

Nobody was hurt.

No one was harmed, but caused some damage.

And then in, Wayne County, it was an ef f0, tornado.

So we're talking about, probably 70mph or less, but pretty severe.

I mean, pretty crazy to even think that that might see something.

So, you know, like I said, damage to some buildings and some trees falling, but nobody harmed Karen.

Joe did a feature on the state of Ohio, your television show about, how to be prepared.

Yeah, she looked into there's a new, tornado shelter in Delaware State Park, North Columbus.

And these things are there for people who don't have the ability to go to the basement.

You know, they live in apartment buildings.

They are they unhoused.

They need someplace to go.

And it's unclear how many of those are happening in Ohio.

How many of those are out there?

About 375 shelters in general have been dealt with FEMA grants.

But April is the worst EMA, I'm sorry, Federal Emergency Management Agency, there.

Yeah.

But April is the month that a lot of people worry about in terms of tornadoes, because our most severe tornadoes in Ohio have happened in April, including the one in Xenia in 1974, where 33 people died and basically the city was torn down.

Yeah.

Be safe out there and don't mess around.

If you get a tornado warning, you got a basement, use it.

Yeah, right on down.

A grassroots effort to ban data centers in Ohio cleared another procedural hurdle yesterday, when the Ohio Ballot Board approved proposed amendment language.

Karen.

Now the real work begins for the supporters.

And I've heard a lot of pessimism.

We already have, a ballot issue that's been going for months in regards to abolishing property taxes.

And there are a lot of experts that say that's not going to make it across the finish line.

Here.

We have folks starting months, months later.

What is the handicapping on this?

Well, they need to get 413,487 valid signatures, which means they have to gather a lot more than that so that they can cover any signatures that are ruled invalid.

All right.

Somebody writes Mickey Mouse.

Yes, exactly.

Or somebody is not a registered voter, because you have to be a registered voter to sign these petitions, and you're only supposed to sign a petition once.

So if you sign more than once, that second signature gets thrown out.

But you're right.

The timeline is really short.

I mean, three months, they have to have this done by July 1st.

Right now, you can argue that abolishing property taxes and banning data centers of more than 25MW per month are ideas that people are interested in, that people want to talk about.

I've gotten a lot of emails from people saying, where do I sign these things?

But without a strong organizational structure to really push these petitions forward, it's a really, really difficult hill to climb.

And these folks are just getting started.

So who knows what's going to happen.

And when we say these folks that the effort is being led, from rural Brown and Adams counties, they're worrying about data centers changing the character of their counties not far from them in Pike County, a massive new data center was just announced.

What do we know about that?

Yeah, that's on federal land.

So that's a it's actually being fueled by a natural gas plant that's next to it.

And this is a huge deal.

This is land that, is reclaimed from where the gaseous diffusion plant used to be in Portsmouth.

Well, that's what it's called.

It's not really in Portsmouth.

But anyway, and this is one of the things that people point to is saying we don't want a data center this big, but also data centers.

I mean, if you want to use your phone, if you want to use your laptop, if you want to do these things, data centers are part of that deal, and AI is growing exponentially.

And well, then it's not just I, it's it's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

And so, what I think is interesting about the Python project is because that's federal land, there are no property taxes paid on that.

Now, deals can be worked out to pay schools a certain amount of money, but there's no property taxes on that.

So tying it back to the abolish the property tax movement, we'll talking about deals being worked out.

There has been opposition to data centers across the state, as that ballot effort shows.

But canton isn't necessarily opposed to them as long as they come in on the city's terms.

That was a big part of the message from Canton Mayor Bill Shearer in his state of the city speech last night.

The mayor says on the city's terms.

What does he mean by that, Glenn?

Well, according to him, that says, that means asking the hard questions.

He says he's already starting to ask these questions about environmental impact.

The systems that will be used, kind of getting in the weeds here, but air cooled or closed loop, the power grid, which is always a big concern how it will affect the residents.

And again, any time a major business moves in and this is, you know, for Mayor Sheer, how do we ensure these companies invest in our community and not just exist in the community?

So, we had some reporting in Lorain County earlier, from Matt Richmond and Zaria Johnson where citizens were concerned that they were just, you know, the commissioners were just kind of greenlighting this and not asking these tough questions.

That was the accusation.

Bill Shearer in Canton says he is already asking these tough questions and, as you said, not necessarily opposed to him.

He just wants to get all of the information and ask these hard questions.

And there's and there's one that's being proposed for for the area around canton.

Now.

Interesting.

Glenn, you've done a good job as, the editor, mentioning all three of the reporters that, report to you.

So you've given him all there and.

Well, he's here.

Gabe's here already.

Oh, you heard what he said about ice and all those counties.

I mean, he knows exactly.

You didn't have to say anything there.

I'm here.

I'm only as good as the reporters make me.

Look, I agree, I agree heartily, I agree 100%.

I just think it's interesting to see how the public opinion on data centers has changed, because a couple of years ago, data centers were viewed as clean development, that they'll bring in high paying jobs, you know, and now you've got communities saying, we don't want data centers or we don't want big data centers, or we want to have questions.

We want to bring in data centers on our terms.

And I just it's quite a shift over the last couple of years.

And the other interesting thing with that Lorain County project, you've got, Matt Dolan from Team Neo saying, well, we're not marketing this as as a data center.

We don't necessarily want a data center here.

The people are a, the residents are concerned about a data center coming in which they believe will ultimately end up.

Yeah, construction jobs are great.

But in terms of permanent jobs, how many do these data centers really create?

So you've got the developer saying, well, no, no, no, we don't want it to be a data center.

We want it to be something else.

So you're right, Karen, it's interesting how the opinion is kind of changed on these still in a state of the city also address safety issues and and discipline for officers.

If you want to know more about that you can check out Anna Huntsman's story on Idea stream.org.

She reports to Andrew Meyer, by the way.

So I got that in for Andrew.

Yeah, we'll try to get everybody mentioned.

Great team for him today.

Great team.

Moving on though to another story Akron City Council has approved at $785 million 2026 operating budget.

Most, as is the case with city budgets, is for personnel.

There are also priorities for investing in public safety, youth programs and neighborhood initiatives under the city's together for Akron Vision.

Glenn, let's talk about the plan for hiring new staff, eliminating other positions in this budget.

Yeah.

Mayor Seamus Mylett calls it mission critical hiring.

That's the only kind of hiring they're going to do.

If it's, you know, absolutely essential, mission critical as I said, one change they're going to make, open positions won't be immediately posted.

As you mentioned, personnel costs making up 72% of the general operating fund budget.

They've already eliminated about 35 full time positions through attrition.

And we've heard this throughout, really northeast Ohio, Cuyahoga County, Cleveland, same thing in Akron.

They're trying to reduce overtime, for the police and fire really in any way they can.

They say that early reforms in the fire department have saved over 90,000 in the first couple weeks, projected savings of 2.5 million.

So they're looking at all these to bring in consultants.

They're talking about all these different systems, aligning best practices, all these kind of phrases that you hear, in in an effort to improve this efficiency.

How are they, addressing public safety and over time, with the budget.

So they're just they're looking to reduce it.

They're looking to perhaps stagger some of these, reduce overtime, reduce public safety, reduce the overtime.

Right.

Reduce the overtime.

They don't want to reduce public safety.

That's the goal.

Right.

Reduce overtime, but keep, public safety at the level they're, they're, they're used to.

So they look at some different things, but, you know, staggering shifts, and things like that, new revenue sources to possibly reactivating some traffic cameras, in schools on selling or managing city owned parking facilities.

The 2026 budget also $13.4 million smaller than last year's budget.

So they're looking at a number of measures and kind of shifting money around, okay.

And total non-sequitur.

But Richard Cunningham Taylor Wisner, I feel like it's the Academy Awards.

And I have to mention every reporter.

Those are, folks that work with Justin Glanville.

Who am I missing?

I mean, there's a multimedia journalist who would go on forever, Joe Ingles showing.

Okay, there we go.

Hunter Morris working hard.

Yes.

Last night.

And by the way we are going to be posting next week some job openings.

We have some reporter positions and some associate producer positions open including one for The Sound of Ideas.

So do keep an eye on that.

If you're an aspiring journalist and would like to work for Idea stream anyway, moving on, come hang out with us.

It's fun.

Can't you tell?

Yeah, the greatest having a great time.

Akron police have new guidelines for dealing with protesters, including limits to tactics such as mass arrests, tear gas and pepper spray usage.

Gabe, what is this new policy say about use of force specifically?

So so it's the it's a tactics that they're changing essentially.

You know, pepper spray cannot be used indiscriminately or against people passively resisting tear gas.

Now requires approval from an incident commander, and they must have advance warnings and then provide some information about how to disperse and get away from it.

So, you know, they're they're looking for less lethal, lethal impact munitions, to have I mean, it just make it less dangerous for people have have people have the ability to get away safely.

And this stems from an incident that happened a couple years ago, 20, 23, where people were protesting, the a lack of indictment results for the case of Jalen Walker, which happened in 2022.

And some of our reporters were caught in some of that mess.

Yeah.

Abigail Bo Tar, who has since left.

I mentioned job openings also, Eagle Coffman, who works with Jane Nungesser.

Yeah.

Am I getting all the names in there?

I'm trying.

You are?

I mentioned we mentioned Lee Barr before.

We've got our Kathy.

We got everybody.

Rachel Road, Drew Macias.

Okay, let's, let's get back to news.

We'll get the arts team in just a minute.

No.

Medina County Budget Commission trying to claw back millions in tax money from schools, but failed because they blew the deadline.

It's a big money relief for the Highland.

Brunswick, Buckeye and Clover League school.

Clover leaf school districts.

Okay, can they read a calendar?

Apparently not.

I mean, this this is a I mean it's just situation.

So I think like the schools are probably pretty excited about this.

But you know, those who missed the deadline are saying that they wish they had more clarification and clear direction from the state.

And that's why they say they missed a deadline.

And this county budget commission that was given power last year, these budget commissions, Karen, to to make these decisions about whether too much money is going to the schools.

Glenn.

Why were they planning to claw back money?

Yeah.

So you mentioned this is a new state law, state provision.

This is under House Bill 309.

It allows county commissions to lower vote voter approved levies if the revenue is deemed unnecessary or excessive.

That's one of the questions that came up, through this Medina County issue.

How does the state define unnecessary or excessive?

How many millions?

You know, some districts in Medina County had tens of millions of dollars in carryover cash reserves.

They say they need that for financial security.

They need that for their five year, plans and things like that.

So one question that comes out of this is how does the state, define unnecessary and excessive?

This is fascinating to me.

When critics say you're overturning the will of the voters, the voters have already approved this.

They've approved these levy amounts.

And so that's what critics of this, this process are saying, like, how can you overturn the will of the voters?

We've seen a little bit of that with the marijuana laws, but I this is a subject for another day, I suppose.

I will say Medina County does have a strong, GOP presence, strong Republican presence.

They say they're looking out for taxpayer, the taxpayer dollars because these schools don't need millions in carryover funds.

But the auditor said this has led to a lot of questions that they need to ask.

the Eastside market, operated by a community development corporation in the midst of scandal, is now closed.

Cleveland owns the property, canceled the lease, gave the market was facing several financial issues.

And I mentioned this kind of corruption backdrop, which Mike, the councilman there has talked about.

Yeah.

Tell us more.

Well, where are we at with that?

So the, organization that ran the market called Northeast Ohio Neighborhood Health Services, shortened by neon, neon neon, and not only were they not profitable, but they owed more than $200,000 real estate taxes, about $50,000 in utility bills.

And neon was actually put on a payment plan back in 2023 to pay back back taxes and failed to even complete those taxes.

So, like, they owed a lot of money.

You know, I was there yesterday and someone came up to to take some photos and, and someone walked up to the store and I can't believe they're closed.

So this is so not only is that is it that they closed, but they they made that area again a food desert.

So a place where there's not a grocery store within a mile radius.

And food insecurity is a huge issue in that area.

And I spoke to a woman who, you know, she, she, her name's Erica Ervin.

She builds community gardens across the city, primarily on the East side.

Her very first one, ten years ago, was in Glenville to help fix food insecurity there.

And she's she's very concerned about where people are going to lean on for groceries now, and, you know, she's just encouraging people to, you know, to, to, to lean on what resources they can to provide themselves with, with healthy options.

And the city is looking to get a new tenant, hopefully someone that can that can sell food.

And I spoke with Councilman Kevin Conwell yesterday who said that, you know, our plan.

And he said he's hoping to work with the mayor is to make the market more resemble the West Side market.

This what they called the new East Side Market in Glenville, once upon a time was was like that.

It was it had these different stalls from local vendors, and now it just resembled a grocery store, a little bit more bare than most grocery stores.

But, you know, they want to be more local vendors and look like what we have here on the west side.

Okay.

This is right up there with taking money from the collection plate or kicking an old lady's cane.

Some miscreant stole a quarter of the Ashland High School marching bands instruments during their trip to perform at Disney World in Orlando.

The instruments, many of which the students themselves owned, were not just lying around.

Someone broke into a locked trailer at the hotel and ripped off their instruments.

Honestly, it's it's hard.

You feel bad for these kids, you know, this stuff was stolen.

But I think, they said about 20% of us of their of their instruments were stolen.

They were lucky to keep the show going because a local high school helped them, borrow instruments that the school helps the students find rentals for this period of time.

And.

Yeah, it's just it's just so mean.

Just take me.

But I gotta say, they had some pluck.

They, these band directors were like, hey, we got the show must go on.

And they went out.

First of all, they did a go fund me and got some money, but they went out to these local, rental instrument rental places and got every kid, their instrument, an instrument they could play, including the saxophone player, which or the one they couldn't get, and someone from another band was staying over with their parents and said, I'll only have one.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

It's very neat.

I think community coming together, you know, they found the instruments they needed.

The go-fund-me right now is at 8325.

Wow.

Last I checked, it was like 3500.

It's like double than what it was yesterday.

And they've already got the instrument, but they're saying, hey, we can definitely use this for the cost of the trips and, and, just basically to support that.

But yeah, whoever stole those instruments blew to you and go Ashland Arrows.

Yeah.

Go Ashland Arrows.

Is that the name.

Yeah.

Like like Akron Arrows.

Like they used to be a RR.

Oh, okay.

It's somewhat different.

Yeah.

All right, well let's talk about nicknames.

How about guardians?

Do you like those Karen.

Yeah.

Okay.

There she is.

You got to take a look here.

She's got guardians.

Eyes stole on.

What is that, a scarf?

Yes.

They'll take on the Chicago Cubs, weather permitting, at Progressive Field this afternoon.

The sold out home opener, the 33rd straight sellout of a home opener.

It's Good Friday today.

And I remember in years past, when Bishop Anthony Pella gave Opening Day dispensation to those who abstain from meat on Friday for lent so you could have a hot dog.

The no such edict this time.

So it's popcorn and Cracker Jacks for those who are observing the Lenten, admonition.

Although you can't really have the popcorn.

That's the new offering from steak.

It's tallow popcorn.

Yeah, tossed in beef tallow butter with steak seasonings.

Is that meat?

Yeah, I know, sounds like talents.

Meat dish.

Play it safe, just in case.

Yeah.

Like how many of these sold out home openers have you been to?

I actually went back and looked, and not as many as I have always wanted to go to, let's just put it that way.

But yeah, I've, I've been to everyone.

I even was supposed to go to the 1 in 2020 that got moved that until July because of Covid.

So I'm excited.

Well, I'm excited too.

And I wanted to get that in there because you needed to have it.

But we also have to talk about the indoor amusement park Ferris wheel.

Now, when the amusement park closed, the Ferris wheel moved to canton and it was in the Hall of Fame village there.

And now they say it's no longer in their plans.

What are they going to do with the Ferris wheel real quickly?

Yeah, they're getting out of the amusement ride business.

They want to focus on football, but it can be yours.

That, former IC center now, village, Ferris wheel can be yours for $500,000.

That's what they want to pony up for 500 grand.

You got room in your backyard.

Let's do it.

All right, that wraps the show for today.

Thank you.

Glenn.

Thank you Gabe as well.

And Karen, such a treat to have you in studio.

Imagine Dragons has our song of the day with Ferris wheel.

Promise that I make you feel like we're on a Ferris wheel.

Always.

To get the last word on today's topics, send us an email.

So I at Ideo stream.org.

You can find us on Instagram at The Sound of Ideas.

I'm there too.

If you want to join me at Michael K McIntyre and Monday on The Sound of Ideas, bring you a recent City Club of Cleveland conversation on women in Northeast Ohio leading the future of AI innovation.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks so much for listening.

And for Karen sake, go Guardians and stay safe.