Welcome to the Sound of Ideas Reporters Roundtable from Ideastream Public Media.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Good to have you with us.

Leaders of the effort to abolish property taxes in Ohio say they won't stop until the issue is before voters.

But will that happen this year?

The Cuyahoga County prosecutor has called for the state auditor to investigate expenditures for a new jail, the latest salvo in his battle with the county executive.

Truckers who blew off more than $5 million in tolls have been put on blast and sent to collections by the Ohio Turnpike Commission.

And the federal government is having a tough time unloading the Cleveland Harbor West Pierhead Lighthouse.

New asking price: Nothing.

Joining me to discuss these stories and other news of the week, Ideastream Public Media's criminal justice reporter Matt Richmond and Akron Canton reporter Anna Huntsman, in studio with me Good to see both of you guys.

Morning, Mike.

Happy to be here.

Happy to have you here.

And happy Friday as well.

Happy Friday.

Exactly.

In Columbus, a woman who, at that price, can finally afford a lighthouse, Ideastream's Statehouse News Bureau chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

Prosecutor Michael O'Malley has called for the state auditor's Public Integrity Unit to investigate the county's funding process for a new billion-dollar jail project in Garfield Heights.

And, Matt, this is a spat that's been going on for some time with Michael O'Malley, the prosecutor, and Chris Ronayne, the county executive there.

I recall we talked on this show about a letter that O'Malley had sent saying, you're doing it wrong and you're breaking the law.

So they didn't heed that letter.

And now O'Malley is ramping it up.

Yeah, there's a state law that was passed in 2024 to sort of add a requirement.

If you want to build a jail, you have to create a committee with, you know, the clerk of courts, the sheriff, a couple of judges, people who work in the jail or in the courthouse, who have to approve the plans for the jail.

And this was never done.

And O'Malley brought this up because, you know, they hadn't really started construction, and they haven't kind of secured the large amount of money and $1 billion, close to a billi it'll take to really build the thing.

But they've started to do some big, like, basic site work.

And he said, you know, you shut it down.

You can't do that until you get this, this committee formed and have them vote on the plan and they didn't then say, okay, let's go to committee and do it all the way that O'Malley says it should be done.

Initially it was, sort of a spat between the county executive and the prosecutor kind of saying, you know, he's just getting away, get in the way of, kind of, county operations.

And we're going to look at it and see what our options are.

There are lawsuits threatened.

And, you know, they they had formed a committee that was supposed to meet this week, Wednesday, you know, Wednesday.

And that committee's meeting was canceled at the last minute.

And there were no comments on, on why that happened, but there's speculation there was a sort of a stray comment in the, in County Council's meeting where the council president mentioned that, you know, he expects that committee to vote in favor of the jail plan because judges on it had received a guarantee from the county to get $150 million to sort of upgrade the existing courthouse.

And that was taken in sort of a saying that they were bribed for their vote.

That's a side issue.

And then, you know, but but it's not really clear why they canceled that, that meeting.

So it seems like one of the big sticking points was what happens to the existing courthouse because if you're going to move the whole jail and, and complex and all of that out to Garfield Heights, we still have this facility here that is not in good stead.

So now what we're saying is, okay, we'll we'll do the upgrades there too, and everybody will approve this.

What O'Malley then has done is kick it up.

He went to the state auditor.

And what does he want from Keith Faber?

Well, kind of to review his findings, more or less.

He he just said, you know, they they hired this company to be the designer and builder.

They've it was $40 million thereabouts for kind of that preliminary work was bonded by the city ... by the, by the county.

And he said, were these steps that were taken, you know, how were they taken?

Were they an issue with, with, with state law?

And, you know, it's not clear where that's going to lead.

In the meantime, the county council hasn't given some of the approvals that it needs to do, including borrowing the money.

It's a $1 billion project.

They've got to do some voting in order to make that happen.

That's on hold until we figure this out.

Well, yes.

And I mean, the the schedule that their sort of bond specialist and the project manager are kind of working on said that if they get to vote on issuing the bonds to borrow the money and on the there's a kind of a final maximum price that the builder has given to the county.

The county council also has to vote on.

And if they do those votes by the 28th, so Tuesday, then the schedule that they have laid out to kind of make all that work together, is still kind of in place.

It's not clear now because they there was a third piece where county council wanted to pass an ordinance that would restrict how the sales tax it's being used to pay off the borrowing for the jail, how that money is spent, kind of down to the details, or it's sort of a question of whether it should be spent on operations at the jail or just building, and county council wants it to be restricted to building and maintenance of the jail and a new courthouse.

So that piece is now has, has now passed.

And so, you know, in theory, if they can kind of push this vote through on the 28th, but without that approval, it's getting very confusing.

Without that approval from that committee that had their meeting canceled on on Wednesday, there's some doubt among council members that they should be passing, that they should be issuing the bonds without that vote.

It is confusing, but it's good to have you here because you know what it is.

And now I think I understand.

So, thank you for cutting through that thicket.

In the meantime, we've got an existing county jail, which is attached to that justice center that we talked about, that is not in great shape, that has been overcrowded in its history and where there have been a number of deaths.

There was an investigation and a statement that was made by the US Marshals Service saying that it was, not, up to par.

And now we have, just this week, another $50 million wrongful death suit that was filed, in regards to a, someone who was incarcerated there and died.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, her her name was, Jennifer Wade, and she was, you know, checked into the jail for, sort of something that happened in a hospital.

She was somebody who needed medical care.

And it was that was known when she went into the into the jail.

And, you know, based on the the lawsuit, she when she was in her cell, she was laying down face down on the ground and did not receive kind of care and attention from guards and others who who, you know, walked past her cell more than once while she was on the ground.

All right.

Well, I know you'll continue to cover that issue as well as the jail writ large, and we'll continue to look at that as well.

Moving on to another local story, an ordinance passed earlier this week requires buyers of properties bordering Canton to agree to annexation into the city in order to get water and sewer service from Canton.

Townships worry that they could eventually be swallowed up.

And it's interesting, Anna, because it's one of those things like it's like a connected thing.

If you are connected to Akron and you want to get it, or I'm sorry to Canton, and you want to get its service, then you've got to agree to be a that might be connected to that property might need to be annexe And that's where township officials are saying, wait a minute, are we going to have a township after a certain number of years?

Exactly.

That's the concern.

And this has been going on for a couple months now and since the ordinance was initially passed.

But that's the concern because right now it really does only affect the properties that are right on the border, as you said.

But Stark County is kind of interesting.

I think there's 35 different municipalities, so they're a little bit different than some other counties.

There's a lot of townships, and unlike maybe some other townships that you might be familiar with, they have their own identities, they have their own trustees, they have different school districts.

There's a lot of rivalries.

So there's a lot of kind of pockets of Stark County that have their own identity.

So township folks who live in the township, people who represent the townships, are really concerned that eventually they're going to be swallowed up into Canton, because as you keep annexing, that is what could happen in their minds.

And, as you say it all has it has different identity.

There's rivalries.

For example, Perry Township, it has this famous journalist that's from there.

Her name is Anna Huntsman.

Two famous journalists, technically, Stephanie Haney as well.

Oh, I didn't know she also was f I knew she was somewhere near around there.

Yeah, maybe she was your rival.

No, she's she's your.

No, she's your compatriot.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Right.

No.

So, yeah, I'm from Perry Township.

I've had the chance to talk to a lot of folks from Perry, over the past few weeks.

Everybody, regardless of whether you live near the border or not, is concerned about this because it does have its own kind of identity.

And folks are saying we picked this township for a reason.

We decided not to live in Canton for whatever reason, it is, we don't want to live in a city.

We don't want to pay income tax.

You know, people are concerned about Canton's crime rate, economic decline.

They're saying we we chose to live in Perry.

We love the school district, we love this community.

So that's kind of the main concern there.

And what is Canton's justification for saying if you want water and sewer service, I think 15,000 or 15%, the number of people that are not in Canton who get that sewer service is some percentage of what they have.

What is their argument for saying you should be annexed into the city?

It makes it easier for them somehow?

Well, they can collect more income tax if there's more folks living there.

But the main thing they said is there's some odd borders.

So if you actually look at a map of Stark County, you'll see there's Canton, and then there's kind of like around it is Plain Township, and then there's these little kind of islands of township inside the city limits or vice versa.

And so they're saying, you know, if we're trying to pave a street and then it suddenly is in a township, we have to go around that.

And wouldn't it be great if we could just continue paving that, that street?

So they're saying it will make services more efficient in the long run.

And that it's just it doesn't make sense for there to be, say, three different fire stations on a four mile stretch of road or whatever it is.

If you go back something like 70 years.

This was the trick where Columbus was able to grow as big as the thing because it said, okay, if you want water from us, we're going to annex you.

And then Columbus became huge.

Yeah.

Is that the goal here?

Is Canton trying to become gigantic?

Well, I will say, Council Majority Leader John Mariol and Canton Mayor Bill Sherer have both referenced Columbus as the way to do it.

And look at how they're growing now.

And, look what they did and how this worked.

I did talk to an urban planning professor at Ohio State to kind of break this down.

What was going on with Columbus and how does that work as a strategy today?

And he was saying, yes, it indeed helped Columbus quite a bit.

It quadrupled in size.

But at that time the areas being annexed were greenfield or rural, not long standing townships.

So he said cities really need to be careful and be cautious with this kind of strategy nowadays.

He recommended doing things like joint economic development districts or JEDDs.

Akron actually pioneered that, by the way.

And this is exactly that's exactly what it is.

It's, you know, you can get our water, you can run your business, but we're going to benefit a little bit from that business, whatever the percentages.

So that already exists between Canton and Perry.

And we've talked about that in regards to the idea of a possible data center going in there and people being opposed to that.

So one does exist.

This would be argue for having a bigger one or more of them.

Yeah, just more of them.

So if there's a property, you know, there's an area where there's economic development happening in the city and township, both want to benefit, say, because the city is providing water.

Yes.

Just create more JEDDs because actually the one Canton Perry JEDD right now is just for that data center property.

It's not for the entire township or anything like that.

And I don't believe there are any JEDDs currently with Canton and Plain Township.

Plain Township is the other township that's really concerned about this.

There are none.

They have some sort of municipal agreement.

I don't know what it's called, but they're they're in conversations with that right now, continuing to talk about it.

But, Canton doesn't seem to be backing down on this.

Plain Township Trustee Scott Haws and other leaders are actually calling on the state to do something about it.

So they're talking with their legislators saying, we need some sort of annexation reform to say that a public utility can't be used for this sort of thing.

So you can't make water access, you know, on the line here when it comes to where you live, essentially.

All right.

Let's get back to Karen.

I think we're ready there now.

And Karen, we were talking about the property tax elimination, the effort to do that.

I saw the press conference yesterday that was held by the people pushing that.

And what they said essentially was, we've got a lot of signatures.

We're going to keep gathering them, but we may have to just keep our powder dry and wait until 2027.

What's the benefit of that?

If they turn them in this year and didn't qualify, then they just kind of evaporate?

And if they hold on to them, they can build on that until next year.

Well, in a way, what we are looking at here with this group is, first of all, they held this press conference in a house in Lake County where there was a complete replica of the Oval Office, including the Resolute Desk.

So it was an interesting, it was really it was really.

And then, this group announced that they have, according to what they say, 305,000 signatures.

That doesn't mean 305,000 valid signatures, signatures.

That just means 305,000 signatures.

They say their goal was 620,000.

Which makes sense, because you need, a fair amount.

I mean, the last three citizen initiated constitutional amendments that got to the ballot did have about 700,000 submissions when they brought in their signatures.

So they were trying to get to 620.

They're not going to get to 620.

They still think they might get to the limit, which is 413,487.

But again, that's valid signatures.

So that would mean if they got that number, nobody's signature was ruled invalid.

So the decision they got to make now is by mid June is to go ahead and keep the signatures they have and build on them and aim for next year, or to submit the signatures they have now and try to make the fall ballot.

And so they're going to have to try to figure out which one they want to do.

But the trick is if they turn them in now and they are ruled not enough, then they got to start all over again.

And they're saying that if they keep the number of signatures they have now, they can just build on that.

Right.

And the problem with that is the longer you hold on to signatures, the more likely it is that more will be ruled invalid because people die, people move all of that.

So it does make the process a little bit more difficult in terms of getting to that 413,487 number, even though you have longer time to do it.

Is that how many sheep you count to go to sleep at night?

413,000.

What is it again?

You know the number right off the top of your head.

413,487.

So we'll look at this possibly in the next year.

That means we're going to continue to have this debate until next year.

And the opposition to eliminating property taxes is getting organized.

And we know that there are townships and park systems and police departments and fire departments that are against this.

But we're now seeing elected officials as well.

We're now seeing this unified opposition.

Yeah, this group of more than 65 unions representing first responders and local governments and libraries and all of these entities that are funded by property taxes, have come together with a group called Ohioans to Protect Public Services.

And they formed before this announcement came out, because they really wanted to get the word out there to start the campaign.

I mean, they're talking about the potential of eliminating two thirds of their revenue through eliminating property taxes.

And obviously, that's a that's a serious threat to local services in general.

And when I spoke to Senator Jerry Cirino, who is it's his district where this announcement was made, he's been very outspoken against this idea.

And he says that, you know, first of all, the people who want to abolish property taxes don't have an idea on how to replace that $21 billion that property taxes raised.

But the property taxes are also in place because voters approved them.

And so voters have said they want money for schools and law enforcement and fires and zoos and things like that.

So that is really what voters have said they want.

So to say that they don't want to pay property taxes is kind of or that their property taxes will be abolished is a problem.

And standing behind the resolute desk was John Plecnik, who is a Lake County commissioner.

And he said, look, you had all this time to fix it, to take care of seniors.

There he is standing with his coat on and speaking.

You had time to take care of these folks.

You didn't.

And so we've got to scrap it.

You'll figure it out.

Yeah.

And I think that's been the claim all along from this group, is that they try to go to state lawmakers and say, hey, we've got a problem.

You've got seniors who are being, property taxed out of their homes.

You got people who can't afford to pay the property taxes because the valuations have gone up so much, and lawmakers didn't listen.

And they said this is why they went ahead and expanded their efforts, not just seniors, but to everybody in the state, potentially to abolish their property taxes.

Now, again, they are well short of what they need to get on the ballot.

They have until July 1st.

But it just looks like and I had said this all along, it's an all volunteer group.

The groups that have made the ballot in the past usually have used paid signature gatherers, because you need so many signatures from half Ohio's counties in a time line.

And so this is a this has been a tall order and continues to be.

Alright.

And how many times do you think we'll we'll talk about this until November 2027 ... 00:18:20,065 --> 00:18:22,734 413,000.

What's the rest of that number again?

413,080 something, she said.

I think 187 40,487 that's it that's how many times we're probably going to talk about this until next week, a year from November.

Go ahead.

Just so you know, it's not a random number that represents 10% of the overall vote in the last race for governor in 2022.

So that is a standard number that the data center people, for instance, also have to gather to make the ballot there.

All right.

Cleveland City Council didn't get a say in approving a contract extension for ShotSpotter gunshot detection technology, claiming Mayor Justin Bibb's administration found a loophole to sidestep.

Council members aim to close that loophole.

And, Matt, let's first talk about what the loophole is.

So in in seal all that, you know, any contract for software used by the city, if it expires without an ordinance to either get a new contract or, to, to extend that one can be extended for, for a year on the, on the idea that you don't want just kind of all of a sudden this thing that you've been relying on to go away.

So, so it applies to all software used by the city.

But this isn't like Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Word.

This was something that was in the spotlight that you did some extensive stories on about the efficacy of ShotSpotter, whether it really helps to reduce crime.

There were questions about the cost and the cost benefit analysis and council had talked about.

Maybe we shouldn't use this company in ShotSpotter.

Maybe there's better technology out there.

All of that was the kind of thing you would think you'd hear in hearings about this.

And yet what happened was the mayor's Board of Control, which was appointed by him, just quickly approved it literally in a meeting that lasted minutes.

Yeah.

And, you know, the last time we sort of heard about ShotSpotter was at a meeting like last year.

And when the contract that had expired was first signed, Council added an amendment to that to say that they wanted Cleveland State University researchers to take a really close look at how ShotSpotter is working in Cleveland.

So the last time we heard at council about ShotSpotter, this this report was presented and it wasn't for a new contract, actually, at the time, mayor, maybe administration was interested in switching to different technology.

We'll be talking about in a minu But that that report, you know, said that it does what it claims it's good at when it hears a gunshot.

It's good at identifying the gunshot and saying, this is pretty much where it came from.

But it had overall its ability to sort of reduce crime and its effect because, you know, it, it dramatically increases the number of calls that, police officers supposed to respond to any time there's a gunshot.

That's a priority one.

That means you go and see what happened.

And so you know that they estimated that about 90% of gunshots in Cleveland were not being reported by callers.

And so, you know, to some extent, it's like their officers are now just running around the city all night.

And if there's no caller witness, you just kind of show up to an empty street.

Maybe you'll be able to find, some, some gun shell casings on the ground.

In a few cases, they would find someone who had been shot.

But in most, almost all of those cases, it was accompanied by a 911 call.

So there were a lot of questions about what is this really worth it?

And at the time it was kind of, you know, the assumption was that they were moving to a different technology.

So to Flock technology.

Yeah.

So you as you left that meeting with the feeling they're like, okay, sounds like they're done with the ShotSpotter.

And now it's been renewed.

This is a debate again that you think you would have heard, in council committee.

What we got from the safety director, Wayne Drummond, was, Hey, that's on me.

I should have told you guys, but we were allowed to do this.

And so we did.

And I'm sorry.

What we're hearing back from cou is.

Hold on a minute.

We've got a real break in trust here.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, they want to change that, that law.

And, you know, having covered council for many years now, most of these ordinances for, for contracts when they come up will be a three year contract and it'll include with the option to renew for a year or two years.

In the ordinance, this was paid in part by, Rescue Plan Act funding back in 2021, 2022.

So, you know, that's part of the reason why there was a definite amount and different time period for just for accounting for those ARPA funds.

So, you know, this was a bit of a different situation than what you see with them works most contracts.

And when you say the law, they want to amend the law.

The law is that the Board of Control can approve contracts, like you mentioned, that are renewals of software and a certain, for any amount for, for a year.

And, you know, anything that's above $50,000 goes to, to the Board of Control for, for approval.

So it's all kinds of small stuff too.

And so they're now saying, hey, that should go to council.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For for software contracts.

All right.

We're going to talk about a whole lot more in this show, a lot of this week's news to discuss on the Sound of Ideas Reporters Roundtable.

But first, let me turn it over to Stephanie Haney in the newsroom for a look at what's on tap for next week of shows on The Sound of Ideas Monday through Thursday at 9 a.m.

and 9 p.m.

on 89.7 WKSU.

Stephanie.

Welcome back, Mike, we're glad to have you back.

Here's what we have coming up next week on The Sound of Ideas on Monday.

It's our Law of the Land series where we talk about legal issues that affect our everyday lives.

And this time we're talking about labor practices and workers' rights, including unionization.

This is in Northeast Ohio and on the national stage on Tuesday, we're talking about a health issue, pre-eclampsia, which is associated with pregnancy.

So we'll talk about treatments for that and other things that you just may not know about it already.

On Wednesday, we're looking at Cleveland's social groups, which are opportunities for people to come together.

If you're feeling a little bit lonely, we also have a conversation with the godmother of fashion, Fern Mallis, who has been credited as creating New York Fashion Week for families, is being inducted into the Kent State University School of Fashion Hall of Fame.

So we'll check in with Fern ahead of that.

Finally, on Thursday, we are talking with the author of Bite by Bite, which is a book that looks at the intersection of culture and food.

As always, this is all subject to change if there is breaking news, and we want to hear from you on what you would like us to talk about so you can email us at SOI at Ideastream.

org.

Back to you in All right.

Sounds like a busy week, Stephanie.

And I'm a little disappointed because I got a chance to look at last week's show when I got back from vacation, and Drew Maziasz did that little break while riding a bike through the newsroom.

And I'm thinking, Stephanie, you know, a unicycle or a pogo stick or something?

Yeah.

All right, well, next time we've got we've got lots of plans for that.

In the meanwhile, I'm Mike McIntyre, the host of this show, and I'm with, Anna Huntsman, who you just saw, and Matt Richmond from Ideastrea And in Columbus, our statehouse news bureau chief, Karen Kasler is with us.

And before we get back to the roundtable, I remind you to take the Ideastream news quiz.

You can find it on the Ideastrea .org on the homepage.

There you can test your recall of all the week's news.

U.S.

businesses and local businesses as well can now apply for refunds on tariffs imposed by the Trump administration after the U.S.

Supreme Court ruled the tariffs unconstitutional in February.

So we had some stories about some local companies.

One of them, Anna, Earthquaker Devices that said, listen, we were paying through the nose.

They're going to look for a refund on that.

Yeah, definitely.

This is a company that has, you know, manufactured pieces for artists all over the, the nation and the globe, and they really rely on materials from outside the US.

So I know that they will they're going to be taking advantage of that for sure, they were ruled unconstitutional.

A 6 to 3 decision.

The Supreme Court found that Trump, that President Trump usurped Congress's tax-setting role in April when he set new import taxes on products from almost every other country, citing the US trade deficit as a national emergency that warranted his invoking of a 1977 emergency powers law.

So that's how it happened.

The Supreme Court said, nope, you can't do that now.

Meanwhile, you've got small businesses all over the country that can do it, but you can't ask for your money back.

If you were somebody who bought that Earthquaker Devi or bought anything and paid a higher price because individual consumers can't get their money back from this.

Overtime costs for the Cuyahoga County Sheriff were below budget for the first time in years after the county executive focused a spotlight on the sheriff's budget, the sheriff said to bring it down even more, he needs to hire more deputies.

Give me 40 more guys, people, and we will be able to take care of thi.

The county executive say no, maybe running the office better.

A little better administration will do the trick.

So, Matt, tell us, first of all, for the first time in years, it's below budget, the overtime spending.

Yeah.

For the for the first quarter of the year, he got, used to the sheriff's department.

And this is particularly looking at just the deputies, which for the most part do not work in the jail, the corrections officers, those are the guys that, you know, somebody calls out, you got to get the jail fully staffed.

So the overtime tends to be in the jail.

But for deputies, they were able to get it down for 4000 hours.

And they're expecting, you know, for if that kind of trend continues to be a $1.3 million decrease over the, you know, full year, what's interesting to me is we put the spotlight.

And actually, I think the county executive did because he said, I want to take control of your budget and your overtime is out of control.

And then there's a lawsuit by the sheriff saying, nope, it's my budget.

So we get all this white hot intensity and we talk about it on this show, and the media is covering it.

And then suddenly we found a way to get overtime down.

Yeah, up.

Yeah.

There's, there's, you know, I think that they acknowledged during during budget, there was a, this was in the jail, but, you know, one of the, the chief, deputies of Patel acknowledged that there there are gaps in oversight, that there could be better oversight of, you know, kind of taking a close look at who's there, who's getting overtime and whether they really need to be there.

The, you know, the the overtime in the deputies portion of the sheriff's department is, according to Patel, really driven by medical transports.

And that means that anybody, any time anybody needs to go to the hospital, in the jail, deputy brings them and then at the hospital, deputy or deputies have to stay there, for as long as is needed.

And, you know, that also means that sitting at the Justice Center, it's sort of like a table in the lobby is how it was described to county council.

There's a group of deputies waiting for somebody to need to go to the hospital.

And so that is not a great, great use of, you know, deputies time.

And then it does lead to because somebody goes to a hospital, you need to put somebody at that table in case somebody else needs to go.

Right.

And so, you know, they they have a problem in that in, in the sheriff's department, they are going way over the budget and the executive wants them to get to.

And they say that they just kind of have no choice, that this is the way it works.

Running this this department.

And the county executive is not convinced.

And Sheriff Harold Patel also said, that they were able to rein it in at this point, that it's under budget, mainly because it's been cold out and, crime rates aren't particularly But now that we're getting into summer, that could spike again.

So his idea is I need more deputies.

If I have more on staff that I'm paying salary to, I'll have fewer that I have to pay overtime to.

The county executive is saying no, come up with a better procedure for staffing these things.

Like you mentioned, that table or whatever the other, management machinations might be.

Where does it look like this might land?

Does it look like council is considering?

Yeah.

We should increase their manpower by a certain number.

It's it's really it's really unclear at this point.

They say, oh, you know, this was this proposal for the 40 additional deputies was actually something that was done between council staff and the sheriff's department.

So at least, you know, with the this the safety committee chair, Mike, Mike Gallagher and the sheriff's department, that's where they see kind of the solution to it.

You know, I will say at this meeting, they spent pretty much the whole meeting saying the way to get overtime costs down is hiring more, more deputies.

And then at the end, a council member said, you know, what are your overtime costs for this year?

And you know, sure.

Sheriff Patel almost sheepishly said, they're down.

So, not good timing for that argument.

So, where it shakes out is is unclear and, you know, it should.

Going back to the jail, it turns out, and this appeared to be news to the sheriff will be from the meeting.

He was informed by a council member that state law says that to move his headquarters, which they would be moved if there's a jail in Garfield Heights, to move your headquarters outside of the county seat, you need sign off by the by the county sheriff.

Which, you know, is a little bit of leverage for Sheriff Patel.

Now, I don't it it was in the meeting.

It was clear he was not aware that he had to approve moving his headquarters to Garfield Heights.

The political tangle over this jail just continues to get, the knot gets tighter, for sure.

And we already talk about this.

Yeah, it was it.

That was a different guy that's here.

All right.

200, about 250 to 300 women and children on our wait list for Laura's Home Women's Crisis center in Cleveland.

Every day as the school year ends, service providers worry that family homelessness in Cleveland and in Akron and in Canton and all over the region, often hidden in unstable temporary living situations, will intensify.

And, Anna, let's talk about that.

The City Mission, which is the nonprofit that runs the crisis center we just talked about, they say it's been at capacity for years.

Right.

And that shows that it's the demand only continues to grow because for ten years, their waitlist has been between 250 to 300 people.

And then they can house about 53.

Well, right now they're housing 53 women and 66 children.

So once those you would think that once those folks are able to get on their feet and maybe find a stable living situation, that that would open up a spot and then the waitlist would go, continue to go down.

But that's not what's happening.

It hasn't been happening for the last ten years.

And as you mentioned, this is not just a Cleveland issue.

Homelessness is rising across Northeast Ohio, across the state, in some cases in rural areas where that wasn't an issue before.

So this this kind of demand is being seen everywhere.

And we're seeing, all kinds of responses to that.

In Cleveland, there was a a new, temporary shelter that was opened, downtown, which is a great relief.

But as we mentioned, a lot of times you think about homelessness when it's cold, you're like, oh, I wouldn't want to be a cold.

Somebody's cold.

I need to have shelter.

But when you think about the summer school being out and all kinds of other issues, homelessness actually can be on the rise.

Yes.

And as you mentioned, homelessness becomes there are some aspects of it that aren't as visible as a, you know, someone you can clearly see is living in a tent or someone who's in a shelter.

Technically, couch surfing is considered homeless as well.

So if you are in between, you know you're staying with a friend or you're staying with family, and then you kind of have to go to the next place where you haven't been able to find housing yet.

That's homelessness as well.

And so what they're saying is in the summer, that intensifies because kids are out of school.

So perhaps that situation that they were able to find where they were crashing on someone's couch, maybe they're not going to be able to do that anymore because they're going to have kids there now as well.

And that situation kind of falls through.

So that's the the problem that's kind of happening right now.

Yeah.

You're only as secure as the person that's allowing you to stay there.

And that's not really having a home.

I mean, no, it's it's not.

And yeah, as you mentioned, that's going to be a continued problem.

And, you know, the seasonal shelters are not open now because it's past April.

And so yeah, you're going to continue to see that.

Okay.

Parma students return to school today following the tragic death of a Valley Forge High School classmate inside the school cafeteria.

The student died by suicide.

Matt.

She was 18 years old.

She died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound in front of other students in the cafeteria.

So horrible.

What are the authorities saying now?

So far, they've said that there was no that the student did not intend to hurt anyone else.

So there was no, like, a wider threat to students or teachers at the school.

Which is interesting because when something like this happens, this is a tragedy for that family, for the friends, for all of that.

And yet often what happens and you'll see it on social media and there I think some emails that were going around, petitions and other things where there's rumors that and then it started, well, the gun was brought in and the person intended to do, you know, a Columbine style widespread harm.

These kinds of things can really grow.

There could be a kind of, panic that sets in.

Police are trying to say that wasn't the case here.

Yeah, yeah.

And and they've, You know, it's a it's so hard to say what was going through the students mind the time.

But yeah, they've said that we've found nothing like, you know, after Columbine, there was all this evidence found of planning and of the mental state of those, those students.

And so far they've said that our indication.

Our investigation doesn't kind of show any of that.

So far.

The students were off school Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, today's first day back.

They do have help and support there.

There's mental health support and other, measures that are being taken.

Yeah, yeah.

There there are counselors available and sort of the the question now then is, you know, does this mean that there needs to be heightened security kind of all the time at the school.

Yeah, that would be the question that even if there wasn't some plan for, for a broader event, how did a gun get into a school?

And the question then becomes do you.

Yeah.

Do you need, does everything need to be, metal detected when you go into a school like Valley Forge?

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, that's a, that's a really tough one because it changes it has an effect on the atmosphere at the school.

When you walk in there every day and you go through metal detectors and there's law enforcement officers there searching some bags, it it's a, it's a big deal, I think, to move to, to take that step.

And that's what they're grappling with right now.

And then also the cost.

Yeah I was going to say there's also a cost involved in that.

And the Parma schools officials are saying the state needs to provide money for school districts to be able to provide that kind of security.

Yeah.

And the state is not, a fan of, of providing money to, to municipalities these days.

They're they're not a fan of providing money to municipalities.

I like that.

That's a good one.

All right.

Let's move on to Cleveland Clinic's Akron children's hospital.

They got a bonanza.

They received a $50 million gift, the largest in its history from philanthropist Tom Golisano.

The main campus will be renamed in his honor.

And, you know, usually we don't talk about, gifts.

We get emails all the time.

And press release a did say someone gave 1 million or 10, $50 million to an institution.

$50 million.

Pretty big to help kids who are having health issues.

Yeah, it's a pretty big deal, obviously.

This is Tom Golisano.

He is the founder of Paychex, which is a human resources and payment software you might be familiar with.

And there's this whole, Golisano Children's Alliance that now Akron Children's gets to be part of these other hospitals and kind of work together with them.

But the the gift is unrestricted, too.

So that's a big win for the hospital because they can use it pretty much on whatever they want.

And so they it's going to be $10 million annual installments.

And they're going to try to expand their behavioral health services, kind of relocate some departments and even expand some telehealth as well.

So, yeah, you said it comes in stages, though.

It's like each each gonna be like over five years, $10 million.

I will say they are going to move their cancer center to, the Kay Jewelers Pavilion.

So they're going to have an entire floor, dedicated to that.

And of course, they're going to, you know, think of these initiatives and finalize them in the coming months.

But that's they're also going to do something with the Boys and Girls Club in Cleveland, a primary care center.

And they're also going to do, some expanding to Southeast Ohio as well.

So I mean, they they serve kids obviously across the state.

So I'm sure they're very excited about this.

Yeah, absolutely.

The Ohio Turnpike and Infrastructure Commission has put more than 300 trucking companies with at least $5,000 each in unpaid tolls on blast.

Combined, they owe $5.2 million.

Matt.

They didn't crash the gate, going 98 saying let them truckers roll.

No, that's not how it works.

There were no gates.

This is the system where it reads your license plate and says, okay, pay up.

These guys just didn't pay.

Yeah, yeah.

And, I mean, it sounds like they're kind of doing what they would do with, with anybody is, you know, taking the, you know, they have the photo of the license plate, they send the bill, they they send it to collections.

If it doesn't get paid, they can then go after you, and you do your do your renewals.

But, you know, a lot of these are LLCs.

So, you go after one LLC, they just become a different LLC.

So that's what happened because there's so many on the list, pretty much all LLC.

Yeah.

And the Turnpike Commission, I mean, I saw the letter from the director and in an email that they put out their newsletter and it said, we're getting serious about this.

We want to track these guys down and, meaning these companies and make them pay up.

But I guess with this kind of system, this can happen.

You don't have to stop at the gate.

They don't have to say, you can't go through you, they bill you.

And whether you pay or not, it really is up to you.

They send it to collections.

I just wonder how that's going to have so much going to come knocking at the door, maybe with a pipe wrench in hand or something.

Yeah.

It sort of reminds me of the trouble that the cities here have had with, with, like, absentee landlords, you know, they can't find them, their buildings are falling apart and they can't track the person who's actually responsible for it down.

You know, it seems like the solution to it would be like an easy path where you have a thing on your truck and it deducts the money.

But right.

And I'll tell you that this is interesting because decades ago and covering these stories, when I was back at The Plain Dealer, the Turnpike Commission's tolls were supposed to sunset.

They had a certain time and the tolls were supposed to go away.

Instead, they said, we want to build a third lane.

And so we're going to we're going to renew these tolls so that we can pay for this better turnpike system.

And more interchanges.

And indeed, it is a more robust system.

But the tolls have not only not sunset in 2025 increased another 3.2% to $400.9 million for the turnpike.

It's a moneymaker.

Oh right.

Yeah.

And then to get this upset over that five $5 million seems a little surprising.

Seems like it would be the cost of doing business.

Yeah.

5 million bucks to go after that.

Yeah, I know, I don't know, this one.

$5 million, please.

My budget.

Yeah.

Me neither.

No.

Yeah, I have an LLC.

Just kidding.

Joke.

All right, let's talk about millions of dollars.

That's what the players are going to be making who were just drafted by the Browns.

They added to their offensive line last night, trading out of the sixth pick for more later picks and moving to number nine, where the team selected offensive lineman Spencer Fano of Utah.

He's already being inked in at left tackle, he says.

His idol is Browns legend Joe Thomas, which is good.

They've got a Hall of Famer that knows Cleveland a little better, and he knows how to block big defensive linemen as well.

And later in the first round, the 24th pick, the Browns selected Texas A&M wide receiver KC Concepcion, who told fans to get the popcorn ready.

Now, I don't know how big of football fans you guys are, but even if you're not a football fan, people seem to be draft fans.

There was the Cavs game last night, and yet people were still watching ESPN to see who the next person drafted.

I mean, that's probably because the Cavs game didn't go so great.

Yeah, so that wasn't it.

In fact, I walked in today and Kenny, Kenny, our, security guard.

Yeah.

Which everybody knows.

Everybody else.

Kenny says hello, he calls us family and I walked in, and every day we have what should be on the air.

A Cavs little podcast where we talk about the the game before I walked in and I said to him, we're not talking about it.

And he said, you got that right.

Oh, and that's it.

Sorry.

That's all we need to say.

That's all we're going to say.

Okay.

But in regards to the Browns, it looks like, what I love the most about draft Night, Matt, is that everybody wins.

Like, you don't come out of it going, and if you do, you don't know what you're talking about.

Anyway.

I don't know who KC Concepcion is.

I know he played for a team.

I might have seen one of their games, but everybody wins on draft night.

They're the greatest picks.

The teams will present them to us after the weekend draft, and everyone will be happy.

We'll find out maybe next year or the year after whether it was any good.

Yeah, I was doing my reading.

If there is a, I guess Concepcion as a has a reputation is dropping passes a little more than is ideal.

Oh, you're supposed to catch them too.

Yeah.

Not just get open, but but we'll worry about that in a few months.

So that's more that's the extent of sports for us this evening.

And by the way, Karen, I don't think we're going to get her back.

We've had all kinds of technical problems.

I feel bad for you there, Karen, but we're going to soldier on and get the rest of the show done.

The Trump administration is pushing to induct a president into the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the first time in history, and it's not him.

What?

Teddy Roosevelt served as the nation's 26th president, taking office after the assassination of Canton's William McKinley in 1901.

He's credited with saving the game.

I didn't know anything about this til I read in the New York Times.

It was an even more dangerous Endeavor back then.

It led to the legalization of the forward pass.

He got everybody together.

I went down a rabbit hole about this.

You did all right.

Give it to us.

I'm so excited to talk about it because it also includes John Heisman, Cleveland native.

Because he is credited with popularizing the forward pass back in the day.

But anyway, yes, they met together with these colleges and universities, and this association later became the National Collegiate Athletic Association.

The NCAA right.

And and pushed for these stronger regulations because 18 football players died in 1905 alone.

It was a really dangerous game.

I mean, it still is dangerous, but it was especially dangerous back then because it's kind of a free for all in some ways.

And so, yes, Teddy Roosevelt was basically like, we need to make this, more regulated or we're banning it.

And they accepted the, the forward pass.

That was one of the things that came out of that conversation.

And, yeah, he is credited with actually saving it on a national scale.

Did he require that all rushing plays be uphill, that you had to take the hill.

No, I don't I don't think so.

But I'm sorry about that.

No it's okay.

But actually they they were debating if what I read was, was correct.

And I think it was from the History Channel.

They were debating between lengthening the field or the forward allowing the forward pass, and they were like, we don't have room to lengthen the field.

So we're going to do the forward pass instead.

Yeah.

And that's where we get, back to KC Concepcion.

Right.

Yeah.

Get your popcorn ready there.

The forward pass.

It's coming.

Yes.

It's this doesn't mean he's in the Hall of Fame.

The president's administration will be pushing for that.

But anybody can be, suggested or nominated.

It's not thing I didn't even realize.

I wonder, I should request this data.

I wonder how many random names get thrown in here.

But, yeah, the Hall of Fame has not made any comment about whether or not this will happen, but they basically said, yeah, anyone can, you know, nominate who you want to nominate.

And the Trump administration is hoping it will coincide with the draft being in DC next year.

So that's kind of where it came from.

And this was kind of just said by the, Secretary of the Interior, or I don't know, actually.

Wait, it was the, yeah, Secretary of Interior, said it at a just kind of a reception thing, and it was kind of like, keep this on the down low.

And then it was not kept on.

Yeah.

Well, if we're talking about it in Cleveland, it was definitely not on the down low.

All right, we're going to go back.

Karen is with us by phone.

Thank you, Karen, for hanging in there.

I want to get back to another item that we skipped here when you weren't with us.

And that's the U.S.

Supreme Court's ruling on Wednesday that a company that parses out power to renters is actually a utility.

And so I was thinking about this.

If you live in an apartment building, I think there are five of them in Columbus that are served by this one company that was the subject of this.

They're they're essentially acting as a utility.

They're the ones that are deciding who's turned on, who's turned off in terms of their power and collecting the bills a little bit higher is what they're collecting the rate than others.

And so the question is, are they just a separate company that's helping with that, or are they themselves a utility> And the Supreme Court pretty resoundingly said, they're acting just like FirstEn Yeah, they're basically a middleman.

They're buying electricity through wholesale prices and then selling it back to consumers.

And so, yeah, they're acting as a middleman.

And the utility company said, hey, this isn't fair.

They're not subject to the same regulations that we are, and yet they're doing the same thing that we do in the sense and so they should be regulated, just like regular, publicly held utilities are regulated.

So the Supreme Court agreed with them.

And, in a couple of minutes, one of the sponsors of a bill that would actually put this into law is going to be talking about it.

Democratic Representative Sean Brennan.

of Parma is one of the sponsors along with Tex Fischer, a Republican from Akron.

And, yeah, this is this is an interesting decision because it really does potentially affect, you know, people who live in apartment buildings or buying from getting their utility, their electricity from some metering companies.

You know, it's it's got a lot of implications.

Let's, let's talk about another issue in Columbus.

And I'm doing this by memory.

I don't have it in front of me now, but there was there are several, legislators that are pushing for family leave, to be codified.

And there's so many workers that don't have family leave in the state.

And so if they needed to take time off to care for a loved one or for, any, any circumstance, it isn't there.

What's the push for getting family leave and where does that stand?

Well, this is really interesting because this is also bipartisan legislation.

77% of Ohio workers, according to a group of studies with staff, do not have access to paid leave.

And so you've got Republican Senator Bill Blessing of the Cincinnati area and Democratic Senator Beth Liston saying that the state should come up with its own state administered family and medical leave insurance program that workers and employers can contribute to.

And so they propose this idea of workers and employers is kicking in 2.4% in terms of payroll deduction.

And then that would be sent to the state, the state for the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services would then administer this program.

It would offer up to 14 weeks of state funded paid leave over a 12 month period to help people, you know, who have newborns, who are caring for elderly or sick family members who, have medical emergencies, all of these kinds of things, and allow those people who don't have medical leave right now to get access to it so they can keep their jobs.

Well, we'll definitely follow that one as well.

One of the 7000 or so, maybe 413,467 stories that you're working on.

That's 130,487 87.

Darn it.

I was 20 short.

All right.

Firefighters in Seven Hills are sleeping more soundly with the help of sleep medicine experts at University Hospitals who consulted in a redesign of their sleep space.

My advice had they sought it would be no firehouse chilly after 8 p.m., that would help you sleep better.

But what they actually did here and it was actually cool is the Parma Medical Center Their sleep experts came in, took a look at the space and said, are you kidding me?

These guys are all sleeping, you know, right next to each other.

And you hear this guy snoring and that one's moving around.

And this is, by the way, if there's not an alarm, this is when you should be getting your REM sleep.

And so what did they decide to do?

Well, they decided to not have it be in a former storage closet, first of all, because that's what it was.

And as you mentioned, they were all sleeping in the same room, which is also kind of not great for privacy, especially when you've got, you know, men and women sleeping in the same room and they want to expand it and have more female firefighters, as you think.

But anyway, yeah.

So they redesigned it.

Now it's basically these like five individual kind of like dorm spaces.

So you get your kind of own bedroom.

And the hope is that you get a really good night's sleep, which is important for everyone.

But you think especially people who are out there putting their lives on the line for safety services, right?

Often they're they're there for days at a time on their shift, and then they get, several days off.

But when you're there, part of your job is taking.

Right?

Get your rest literally is part of of their job.

And because sleep is so important for your health, for, your, your mental health, it helps restore memories, you know, mental sharpness and concentration.

And so, yeah, they they literally do have to sleep on the job sometimes to, to make sure that they're ready to go for the next call.

Yeah.

And you would as you said, you need to have them ready.

And by the way they are ready in the middle of the night.

I know there is, there was like some sound machines and other things too.

I would assume they're not the kind that would drown out an alarm, a fire alarm inside a fire house.

I'm sure the sleep experts made sure.

I think that would get you up all right.

A prime piece of historic lakefront property is again for sale.

This time, the asking price is a steal.

Nothing the Federal General Services Administration thought it had to.

Cleveland West Pierhead Lighthouse no longer needed by the Coast Guard, sold at auction in 2023.

With the buyer's never closed.

Now it's being offered as a free fixer upper, but only to government, nonprofit or educational organizations.

We talked about this a couple of years ago when they first put it up for auction.

But, as Karen said, she'd like to own a lighthouse.

It's pretty cool, right?

But unfortunately, unless she is working with a nonprofit or community development corporation or a university, she doesn't qualify.

So you have to be one of these, accepted institutions, and you'd have to use it for some sort of educational purpose.

But there are living quarters, and it's a beautiful space, so you're out of luck.

Karen.

The other thing is, you need.

You can only get there by boat or swimming.

That is also true.

But if they don't get enough interest by the end of May, they will open it back up for auction.

So maybe there is hope for you.

Okay, so Karen, get ready for the auction.

If none of the nonprofits or educational organizations take it.

All right.

And that wraps up our show today.

Karen, thank you so much for hanging in there with us today.

Appreciate it.

Live broadcasting.

It's something that's how it goes.

And I thank you to Anna Huntsman and Matt Richmond.

Thanks both of you for being with us today to be here.

And we're going to end our show this week with a song inspired from the lighthouse.

Here are the Waifs.

Lighthouse, tall and grand.

Standing on that cold headland Shine your light across the sea.

For a wayward.

Sailor girl like me.

Lighthouse man Guide this sailor back to the land.

Steer my ship on through the storm.

That wraps up our show.

To get the last word on today's topics, send an email to SOI@Ideastream.

Find us on Instagram.

We're at the Sound of Ideas Monday on The Sound of Ideas, we'll bring you another installment of our Law of the Land series, looking at unions and why a new generation of workers may be looking at them as they begin their careers.

If you missed any part of today's show we will air rebroadcast tonight at nine on 89.7 WKSU, and you can catch the television version of this show tonight at 5 p.m.

on PBS, WVIZ-PBS.

You can also catch us on YouTube or the podcast provider of your choice.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for watching and stay safe.

Lighthouse man he cant help us all Some hell save and some will fall Hell show you where the danger lies But he can't help it if you capsize.

Cause he will light your way Cause he'll light your way.

But that is all.

Steer your own ship back to shore.