The ideas expressed in city club forums are those of the speakers and not of the City Club of Cleveland Ideastream Public Media or their sponsors.

Production and distribution of City club forums and ideastream Public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black, Fond of Greater Cleveland, Inc.. Hello.

Hello.

We have a big crowd.

We're getting started.

Okay.

Oh, my gosh.

There's so much fan girling going on right now.

Okay.

Hello and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to creating conversations of consequence to help democracy thrive.

It's Friday, March 21st.

And I'm Michelle Tomorrow.

I'm one of the co-founders of FIT Technology.

We are proud City Club corporate members.

I've personally been a member for close to 15 years and delighted to be a guardian of free speech.

Just as Danson said, working with the staff here and many of you to help ensure that we continue to host these important discussion discussions for generations to come.

I'm pleased to introduce today's forum, which is part of the City Club's Health Equity series.

So perhaps as you know, with such a big crowd today, perhaps no widespread social initiative has been targeted by the current presidential administration as aggressively as diversity, equity and inclusion programs or DTI.

Among the executive orders signed by President Trump on day one of his second term was an order ending radical and wasteful government D-I programs and preferencing the executive orders immediately reverberated across the country.

Some organizations, companies and institutions engaged in preemptive compliance, while others have maintained more of a wait and see approach.

Other organized actions, like the Cleveland Cavaliers, who are represented here today, publicly renewed their commitment to D-I.

Yes, the executive orders come in the face of what has been significant progress acknowledging and addressing systemic and structural racism and many other isms in recent years.

And now we are in what feels like a huge step backwards.

I saw a segment this week with former Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg.

He was talking about the importance of DEI at what appeared to be a town hall meeting.

He asked the members in the audience if you think you should not support D-I.

What are you supporting?

What's the opposite of DEI?

The opposite of diversity.

Equity and inclusion is uniformi And he said, And then we need to ask ourselves.

Who gains by being proponents of those values?

So today we will hear from brave local leaders who have long supported D-I and who uplift and educate the community in creating more welcoming spaces and organizations.

So joining us here to assess the state of DEI, the meaning of this moment and the prospects for our future are Kevin Clayton, Executive Vice President and Chief Impact and equity Officer at the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Okay.

We're going to keep on going.

All right.

You never know about the pausing.

I don't know what else to do right.

Everyone up here could get the standing ovation.

Erica Merritt the principal at Equus Group, and Mark Swaim Fox is the CEO of the Diversity Center of Northeast Ohio.

And moderating the conversation is Gabriel Cramer, reporter and producer at Ideastream Public Media.

And remember, if you have questions for our speakers, you can text it to 3305415794.

And City Club staff will work.

We'll try to work that into the Q&A portion of the program.

So with that, members and friends of the City Club of Cleveland, please join me in welcoming our guests.

Thank you for coming here.

We appreciate you being in this enormous audience.

This is a topic that could go for hours and hours.

So we're just going to go ahead and dive right in and get all the questions in that we can.

Erica, let's start with you.

Let's get back to basics.

What is DEI?

We know it has diversity, equity inclusion as an acronym.

People might see it as tokenizing preferential treatment.

To some people, it just means, quite frankly, black or racialized.

So tell us, what is DEI and particularly what does it mean in a workplace?

Sure.

So diversity is present in this room right now.

Right.

It is simply the way or a way to describe human differences which are present in every space that we go into.

And I think about it as something that we create, that we co-create together.

Right.

Differences exist in relationship to each other and should not be simply a label that we put on someone.

So everyone has a race.

Everyone has a gender identity.

Everyone has a sexual orientation.

Everyone has a disability status.

And so on.

Often we're talking about it in the context of representation or who is making up in an organization, a workforce, a department, a team, etc.

And so we are counting, right?

So we're often thinking about it in the context of a quantitative measure.

Inclusion is what you do with that, right?

What do you do with the collection of people that you have in an organization?

It requires action.

Right.

We talk about inclusive practices, or we often talk about inclusion as a verb.

So it is how do you create the conditions for success and make sure that people feel welcomed and can do their best work in an organization?

I think about it.

Another way of saying it is it's the qualitative measure, and when we talk about equity, we are acknowledging what I think everyone in this room knows.

Do.

Does anyone in here have friends or siblings or.

Right.

So, you know, some people.

And if you know other humans, you know that treating everyone exactly the same is an ineffective approach to relationships.

And so in organizations, it's about recognizing that there are different needs.

And it is both.

We we often talk about acquiesce as both a process and a potential outcome.

Right.

How do you get to a place where everyone has what they need and can be their best self?

And I'll add the B to the conversation.

Well, belonging and say that belonging is what can happen when you get the D, the E and the I.

Right?

Mark you said you want to jump in on that.

Yeah.

I first want to thank everybody for being here.

This gives me hope to see this many people wanting to be in this conversation.

So I just wanted to name that upfront and thanks to the City club.

So just want to add, Michelle, I didn't know where Michelle went.

I love that pit bulls edge piece you said there.

I think I think we need to start thinking of, first of all, saying the words diversity, equity and inclusion, not the I think DEI is weaponized right now.

And I also think we need to think about it more broadly.

Like you were just saying, I love that example of do you have any friends?

I don't.

But I know a lot of people did so.

So I'll make it personal.

I was a middle and high school teacher and I see there are some teachers in the room here today for about ten years, and many of my students had IEPs.

Those are those are a combination set for the diverse range of learning styles we all have.

It was their lifeline.

It was something that helped me as a teacher.

And in fact, in Ohio there are 250,000, a quarter of a million students on IEPs just in Ohio alone.

That is true.

Diversity, equity and inclusion work.

I wanted to add that.

Gavin, please.

So first, thank you all for coming out.

I want to thank the City Club for hosting this forum.

Ercan Mart, you've just set this up so perfect.

So I want to double down on a couple of things we no longer use.

And I wanted to say what Mark said with a different twist.

We don't use DTI.

This is coming from a perspective of somebody who was in the delivery room when the diversity baby was born.

Hmm.

Now, I wasn't the baby's daddy.

But you are EBS.

Well, I mean, I got four daughters.

I got enough to do it, but I absolutely was in the room with the four fathers in the four mothers that created the concept of diversity.

This was on the heels of affirmative action.

This is on the heels of multi-colored realism.

So the concept of diversity and then adding on.

And like you said, the B comes as a result of the other couple.

But we've never gotten diversity right?

We sure didn't get inclusion right and we sure had get an equity right.

But now D D has its own name, own definition and for those and when I say those, I'm not talking about any significant political party.

I'm just saying those who are against humanity have defined diversity as divisiveness, exclusion and inequity.

That is not the baby that I saw born back in the day.

So for me, diversity, equity and inclusion, which that's how we call it out.

And I'm imploring, please don't use the word zero D as a slur, so please talk about it as we see it.

For me, the diversity is the collective mixture of all humans characterized by their similarities and their differences.

The two operative words all humans.

The second is similarities.

So how do we get to the point of misunderstanding?

Because we're dancing around the words.

It means diversity, equity, inclusion.

People don't know that sometimes or they misunderstand is how do we get to the point of misunderstanding it and then to vilifying it?

Kevin Sure.

I could take a moment.

I've been writing a book, my first book called The Rise The Fall and Resurrection of.

It is to come out this summer at the Urban League's National convention.

And the rise and the fall, basically, is how we got here.

For me, I think we got here post George Floyd, and that had to do with without just use the NBA.

For example, there were four out of the 30 teams.

There were four chief diversity officer level individuals.

Post George Floyd, we had 28.

A lot of people that began their jobs and careers and DEA happened post George Floyd that equaled diversity, equity and inclusion meant black people.

It has never meant that.

And with all all respect to all people, it was a strategy to get us to someplace else.

It was not the end all.

So going out and hiring just a lot of folks to do this work, it's the only job that I've ever seen where you get to be a chief diversity officer based on your race, your gender, or your sexual orientation.

No skills required.

And that's fine because I want our people doing this work.

But we got derailed because it became one sided.

It became totally focused on one community and therefore derailed the work that was meant to be for all.

Mark And you jump in on this because I think that there's if you want to collab, go ahead.

You know, if there's a tipping point that he's talking about, but maybe there's also a tipping point of what we saw not long ago of universities facing lawsuits for affirmative action.

Right?

And now it's been vilified in that kind of way.

So in your mind, how do we get to the point of having to dance around these letters words to make it mean something different or to mean the same thing and say it differently?

Yeah, I think I want to come back to that in a second, please.

But I think one of the things I think is really important is to sort of break these myths about what diversity, equity and inclusion is or isn't.

And I just want to give one example.

Women.

So women make up about half of the workforce in the United States right?

8% of women are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and 28% are at the C-suite across all industries.

So the myth is d-r.i. And in this context I'm using it takes away jobs and gives it to people who aren't qualified.

So my mother's listening today.

My daughter is listening.

Today my wife is listening.

Today.

I would not be allowed to go back home if I did not say one.

That's wrong.

And two women are super qualified to advance farther than they are right now.

And the needle's not moving really fast.

It's moving some, but not really fast.

This is why we need diversity equity inclusion practices, because it actually ends discrimination and works towards merit.

True merit.

If but frankly, you know, I my mother used to always tell me nothing.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Like what?

What is what is old will be new again.

And I think that this is not new, right.

That we have been here in cycles before.

I think some of the tools that are being used may be a little bit different, but there is this pattern.

And so the idea that diversity is something people have already supported have always supported it, and now all of a sudden there is an attack.

Right.

We know that that's not true.

Right.

There has been a ebb and flow over and over and over again.

And I think about I realized the other day as I was thinking about preparing for today, that I've been in this field for 25 years.

So I had the good fortune.

Many of you who are Clevelanders know that Cleveland State had a graduate program focused on diversity management actually earning.

Right.

And we have we have Dr. Deborah Plummer in the room.

Oh, and I just think is so important to describe and name this as a field of study and practice with scholars who have real expertise in this space and people who have been doing this work since.

I'll use another one of my mother's sayings since Hank was apart a very, very long time and so this backlash that we are experiencing now, and in some cases where I've been describing as the deep professionalization of this work is it's it's intentional, it's conscious and purposeful in service to the other things that diversity, equity, what that and I could stand for.

Let's dive a little bit into the news topics lately.

You know, two months ago, after entering office, President Donald Trump signed an executive order to eliminate DEI programs and positions.

Erica, we spoke a week ago and you said DEI is central to companies, nonprofits, organizations.

What changes since then have you been seeing at any of these companies or organizations?

Yeah.

So people are afraid.

People are confused.

Some people are feeling are exercising a lot of courage.

Right.

And in this space of trying to understand what's going on and what it means for them.

There has been a very real impact.

So there are people who have lost their jobs.

There are people who are trying to figure out whether or not they will have jobs.

I was on a call this morning with small business owners who are describing the direct and indirect impacts of these executive orders on their businesses and organizations.

And so I am seeing some organizations who are really trying to figure out how do we operate from a place of caution.

So being realistic about the parameters that in many cases are being put on their organization right now, and also how do we operate from a place of commitment and from a place of courage simultaneously so that they are not going back on the commitments that many of them have to diversity, equity and inclusion?

They see what it has done for their companies.

They know what it has done and supporting them to fulfill their missions.

And they don't want to they don't want to go backwards.

And they may be in a position where their funding is at risk.

And so they also don't want to be in a position of having their doors closed.

And so I think that balance of courage, commitment and caution is very present in the organizations that we have the privilege of working with and just folks that I'm in community with more broadly.

Please do.

Yeah, it was said that it was essential to two organizations.

The work of diversity, equity and inclusion is essential to organizations that are for profit.

If it helps drive profit, it is essential to nonprofit organization.

If it helps drive mission, if diversity for the sake of diversity, if I have eight seats at this table, are filled with eight people that look different, if I'm not leveraging the the minds and the skills and the talents of those eight people to help drive my mission, to drive my profit, all I have done is hired eight people to look different.

I wash my hands and I have diversity.

All right.

So, so, so, so here's the point.

And in air, because you said you've been on the ground, you've been talking to folks and what have you.

There are many of us in this room that post George Floyd, I'm saying, because that was the peak of when everybody said, we need offices, we need to do this work.

But yet it was Let me just start with the first with the diversity.

Let me go hire people specific.

Let me go let me go higher black people and now I'm done that.

That is not what the work was.

So I have always talked about driving the business case because that is why I go to work with the Cavs.

I get to help leverage all of our community to help drive our revenue goals, to help drive our community goals and it doesn't matter if it's the Cavs or other organizations that I've been a part of.

I start with the objectives of the organizations first, and here is how all these different dimensions of people can help you in driving that, including white folks.

So if your plans and your goals and objectives do not include white folks in your in your diversity plan, you have a faulty plan because everybody is included in all of this.

Diversity doesn't just mean and here's a term that I don't understand.

A diverse candidate will help all candidates so diverse.

I just don't get that.

So, so so with that, I had the chance on Monday to speak at this global forum on it was companies from all over about this whole thing and they were talking about, well, you know, we got to change the name.

We and I'm like to your point around the executive orders, I said, So what part of the federal government impacts you?

None.

So why are you changing the name for the fear of what could happen if we get on a list and we decide to get sued?

Okay, I get that.

But I believe there's there's been an overreach, what I call overprescribing, a remedy to problems that don't exist yet.

I get some of you have to change the names, and that's the evolution.

This is a evolutionary process.

I really respect what you said because it is evolutionary in this is the next evolution of the work and the question is where do we go from here?

Which I think we'll address in a bit.

Go ahead, Mark.

Lisa, quick.

Yes, please.

I just want to add to my microphone.

Okay.

There it is.

I think this comes back to the messaging point.

I was trying to get out there.

I think we need to be clear about what diversity as opposed to what the words actually mean.

We also have to be clear about what diversity, equity and inclusion practices are in a better way.

I you know, I'm turning to my friend Dr. Plummer.

This is just good people strategy.

Diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives are good people strategy.

It's about relationship building, community building that makes people more connected, respected and productive.

Kevin, I want to ask you this next question because in addition to these government orders, we're also seeing private companies almost seemingly fall in line with these policies in eliminating their DEI policies or programs.

Cleveland Cavaliers are not one of them.

I spoke with an attorney yesterday who represents companies, employees who are rethinking or reworking their DEI strategies.

And she told me that some companies are fearful of facing lawsuits similar to what you saw at these universities.

We're getting lawsuits against affirmative action and how legitimate do you feel that is?

If a company says we want to scale back our policies or rework our policies or rethink our policies for the sake of avoiding a lawsuit, not knowing all the details.

This is a general response.

And that is if organizations retreat from the work of diversity, equity and inclusion because of the fear of what could happen to me, that would symbolize that they weren't committed to what it was they started out to do.

Yet, and that is real.

There are threats out there, but honestly, there were threats way before these executive orders happened.

So in the whole concept, this is not new.

It's just what is the new strategy that we have to kind of roll out to defend what is just about humanity?

That's what it is.

This is about humanity.

Eric It seems simple, but I think we have to call it what it is.

Sometimes for some people who I've spoken to who are activists in this arena, they're saying this is about racism.

This is about being anti something.

Can you address that and make it kind of more simple for people who want to address it as a I don't like die for this reason or that reason, but sometimes it comes down to someone being racist.

Yeah, I think that that is possible, right?

I think that no shock, right.

That that exists.

The racism exists and it's not the only ism that exists.

However, I think we we have when we think about resistance, I think there are a few different things that are going on.

And I like to use a framework of level one, Level two and level three resistance.

And so level one resistance is really rooted in a lack of understanding.

And so I think there are people that actually genuinely don't get it.

And so the answer to I don't get it is more information, which is what we're trying to do in this conversation right now and say, here's what DCI, what this acronym really means.

It means diversity, equity and inclusion.

And here's what that means.

It doesn't mean didn't earn it.

It doesn't mean some of these other things and some of these other ways that that language has been weaponized.

And so it becomes about providing information level to is.

I don't like it, I don't like it.

And people may not like it for any number of reasons.

They may not like it because it is requiring something different of them.

They may not like it because they believe that it means that they're going to lose something as a result.

And I think in an organizational context, this is where it becomes really important for organizations to live into their values and to expect the people in the organization, particularly those in leadership roles, to do the same.

And then the last one is, I don't like you, I don't like you.

And I think this is where what you're describing comes in, where it really doesn't matter how much you explain why there are going to be people that do not believe in creating a world that works for people of color, a world that works for people that are a part of the LGBTQ community, a world that works for people who have disabilities, a world that works for all of us.

I. I.

When I think about this work, I actually got a chance to attend a forum, probably about a year ago, and the speaker talked about a sense this concept of essential for some beneficial to all essential for some beneficial to all.

And when I think about what this work is trying to do, it really is trying to address collective needs in service to the whole.

And yeah, there are people who are against that, right?

Because they want to hoard power or they want to wield power or they want to abuse power.

And racism can be a tool for doing that.

I'm going to get to two more questions before we thank you.

Before we reach our Q&A section, I got two more questions.

This one's for Marc.

I think what happened a lot in the days after the George Floyd in 2020 and marches in 2020 or 2021, companies created these policies, do policies, anti-racism statements.

A lot of times employees feel like it was performative.

A lot of times people feel like it was practiced improperly.

You think, you know, the diversity is there, but the inclusion is not there.

We have a more diverse staff, but we don't feel as welcome as we maybe want to mark because these practices maybe were imperfect.

Does that mean that need to be eliminated completely?

No, I think I think, look, we've been checking boxes as a society for a long time around a lot of different issues.

That's not new.

And I think it goes back to what Kevin says.

I think we need folks need to do some soul searching about what they really care about and what they're really going to dive down on.

Yeah, I think it's time to evolve and adapt.

This is a moment, right?

I think to move to that next level to message.

See, I have this thing going here about messaging right now, about messaging that this is good for everybody and here are the reasons why.

So you don't need to check a box.

You just need to show up and do it because it's good for you.

You know, it's funny.

Good for everybody.

We did a story recently at Ideastream about census data and in 2020 versus 2020, the first point in 2020 versus 2010, more people by like a huge number are claiming to be multiracial.

And I spoke to a demographer who said it's because people are more proud to be more multiracial.

People are more willing to claim and are proud of the diversity that we have in our society.

Right.

So it seems as though people want diversity.

People appreciate this.

So despite actions against diversity, equity, inclusion, I'm going to go down the line.

What does the future hold?

So I actually, oddly enough, have a lot of hope.

I'm very hopeful right now.

I'm hopeful for a couple of reasons.

This is a moment for DIY practitioners diversity, equity, and Kevin's going to get me now.

Diversity, diversity, equity inclusion practitioners.

And for for companies and schools that want to evolve to to evolve and message differently.

I actually have a lot of hope in young people.

I see Cleveland states here.

It's spring break.

There would be high school students here.

Diversity Center works in schools as well as companies and organizations.

I've heard students say when we go in and do a program around diversity, equity, inclusion, they say we never get to talk about these things.

They're hungry for it.

They want to talk about it.

In fact, they're the help.

They're the folks that are going to help us message in the future.

They're the next diversity, equity and inclusion practitioners.

So I just want to say for an historic point of view, the diversity center in northeast Ohio under a different name, but it's been here for close to a hundred years.

Mm hmm.

Oh, great.

Thanks, Tony.

This this stuff that's happening right now is not three months old, right?

This organization was founded to connect, respect and value people in 1927.

We've been doing this work.

This work is evolutionary.

It's ongoing.

It will continue to do so.

And we're going to be here.

We're going to be here providing resources to the community like we've always done.

We're going to stand firm.

We're actually launching next week a website diversity center.

Here's my plug Diversity Center and the dot org landing play page for messaging for what diversity equity inclusion is and isn't.

Here are some resources you can go to for the community, and I'll I'll end with this.

We want to be a leader in this space.

And I was talking to Tony Webber, who's on our board looking at it right now, and he gave me this quote this week, Good leaders don't leave anybody behind.

I'm hopeful.

Erica.

So folks who know me know that I am a huge fan of science fiction.

And one of the reasons why I love science fiction is because it requires imagination.

And I think about people who have come before us and who have had the ability to use their imagination, even in the most in many cases, horrific conditions to build that energy, to create something better, something new, something different.

And so I think about us in this moment, and I think it is going to require strategic adaptation.

The things that we were doing before January, some of them will continue to serve us.

And in other places we are going to have to find ways to live into our commitments creatively.

And so the part that excites me and gives me hope is imagining what that's going to look like and believing that it can be better than what we had before.

But that is not going to magically happen.

This is not mythical hope, right?

This is not just crossing our fingers and hoping for the best.

I'm going to call on one of my favorite organizational taglines from Facing History.

Ever heard of and saying I used to work there.

And they're actually here today and say, people make choices and choices make history.

We are creating the future with our actions and our inactions.

And so for those of you who are in organizations and trying to figure out how to do this work, how does leaning into the values, even if you can't say these words right, how does leaning into and operationalizing the values of your organization perhaps serve as a way to continue to do this work?

How does remembering that this work is bigger than just the label and remembering that small move moves can have a big impact?

And then remembering that you're not we're not in this alone, right?

We really are in this together.

And I firmly believe that there are more people that believe in human flourishing than those who don't.

We just need to keep finding each other and we need to keep showing up and we need to keep doing the work.

In the last part of my book around the resurrection of DIY, what I introduced is what's a three hour process?

And I'm going to ask you as a community to join in what I want to share with you.

The first thing that we get to do is to reclaim what has been attempted to be taken from us, and that is our humanity.

If you look across all of the executive orders, it did not just affect black people.

It it is affected farmers, it effected women, it's affected students, it has affected LGBTQ.

It's affected everybody in this room some degree.

So it is up to us to reclaim what I think is rightfully ours.

And I'm saying for those people who believe in humanity.

The second thing is we get a chance to reframe this.

We will define what it is, we will define how it works.

We will define what we will do with it, not people that don't care about other people.

We get the chance to do that.

Then we get a chance to redesign it.

That's the evolution of what this work is.

It is always been redesigned and if I put on my hat again, is is that godparent in the room?

I now feel an obligation that we all should feel for the city of Cleveland.

Why?

Because what happens happens outside of northeast Ohio is what happens out of the northeast, outside of northeast Ohio.

Let me tell you what set your front door to be able to do this one.

The National Urban League conference is coming and they will be holding a whole conversation around the state of black America and the state of America in our city.

Two weeks after that.

And Association of Black Journalists are coming here.

So we have a chance to put our city on the map as to how we're going to address this issue.

And I have this vision I shared with the Urban League and some chief diversity officers last night.

What if we held a unity march in Cleveland that was not about any dimension of diversity, but it was about unity.

Farmers for unity, women for unity, children for unity all across the country.

And then we just kind of have that escalate, just like it did when George Floyd was murdered.

I believe that can happen.

We've done it before.

We absolutely can do it again.

So I'm optimistic and I'm surely optimistic about my community because I've seen what you all do.

Hmm.

Thank you.

All right.

This now brings us to our question and answer portion of the show for our livestream and radio audience.

A reintroduction.

I am Gabriel Kramer, a reporter and producer at Ideastream Public Media, and happily moderating today's conversation.

We're at the city Club of Cleveland talking about the state of diversity, equity and inclusion.

Joining me on stage is Kevin Clayton, Executive Vice President and Chief Impact and Equity officer for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Erica Merritt, principal at Aqueous Group LLC, and Mark Swaim Fox, chief executive officer of the Diversity Center of Northeast Ohio.

We welcome any questions from everyone's city Club members, guests as well as those joining our live stream at City Club dot org or live on the radio broadcast at 89.7 Ideastream Public Media.

If you'd like to text a question for our speakers, please text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And City Club staff will try to work it into the program.

A reminder, please keep your questions short to the point We've already gone a little bit longer than we should have.

So if we have the first question, please.

Good afternoon is a very important topic.

My name is Merle Johnson, former member of the State Board of Education.

Our college campuses are in trouble.

Senate Bill one is going through the legislature.

It's in the House and it's probably going to be signed by the governor.

It would ban diversity, equity and inclusion on our college campuses.

It would ban the ability to strike by faculty members.

It would ban faculty members being able to have an opinion in the classroom.

It's a horrible bill.

And if you haven't heard of it, you need to look it up honestly.

For Ohio, Education is a website where you can get details.

My question is, when you talk about reclaiming, when you talk about what does the future hold?

What does the future hold our students?

There were 800 opponent testimony, only about ten proponent, but it's still going on.

What does the future hold for our college when diversity, equity, inclusion no longer exists?

As you go ahead.

So a couple of things, one of which is before the concept of diversity, equity and inclusion, we actually still survived the letters in the name.

It does not drive the behavior.

So I would suggest we do college by college, University by university.

Understand what actually what does that mean?

I don't like in a big picture.

I don't know what each college did to say I banned D-I across multiple colleges.

Does that mean programing?

Does that mean we can't bring in kids of color in other dimensions?

So I would develop a university strategy under another umbrella.

So reclaiming it means what was the objective of the work of DTI to begin with?

Then secondly, how do we build it, rebrand it under what we need to rebrand it to get the same results?

And if the same result was to give those kids or those students an opportunity for opportunity education, there is a way to get there because we did it before we ever introduced DTI on college campuses, in high schools or any other corporation.

That's what I would suggest we do by campus strategy.

Mark Quigley Yeah, thanks, Merril, for that question.

There's also a bill in the Senate committee right now called Senate Bill 113, which is actually trying to end diversity.

Well, no, D-I, that's what the bill says in all public schools in the state of Ohio.

That has not been passed.

Right.

Call do whatever you can to use your voice to to prevent that from happening.

Sir, Thank you.

I guess I'm even more deeply cynical than maybe what I'm hearing from you.

In my opinion, the attack on D-I is the same thing as the fear that universities are being in violation of the First Amendment because of protests in favor of residents of Gaza.

It's a broader strategy by the Republican Party to grab power to kill institutions that may create voters that would be against them.

So does that change what you're saying to us today?

Because it goes beyond employment practices.

It goes beyond university admission practices.

It goes right down, in my opinion, to a power grab to remove democracy.

Eric, I, I really appreciate I appreciate both of the questions and comments.

And I think we should.

When I think about possibility, I think there is a space between our current reality and that possibility.

And when I talk about hope, I'm thinking about that through the lens of our current state.

And I will be honest and say I think there is going to be more pain between now and then is just being really candid.

And I am concerned about what's happening on higher education campuses of higher education.

I spent part of my career in that space.

I think about my own college experience and I will be candid and say to this group that I went to Warrensville Heights and K through 12, and then I spent my first couple of years at Howard University before attending Ursuline College, which is where I graduated from, and things like the Student Students United for Black Awareness that existed on that predominantly white campus were life saving for me.

And I am not exaggerating when I say that.

And so I do have real concerns, not just about students getting into college, right, but about what happens for them once they are there and ensuring that they are able to get what they need to move through that system and earn a degree and be without being traumatized right in the process.

And I think about that as it relates to K-12 education as well.

And so I think part of it is that all of us in this room have to be active.

I hear you.

We are 800 folks who said this is not what we want.

Right.

And there are many other people who don't want that either.

And we have to make our voices heard.

If these are things that we care about and we don't want them to move forward.

We can't just be yelling into the void.

Right.

We have to put that that frustration that anger, that sadness, that fear into real practice.

Yeah.

To just underscore two questions that were asked and again, I just want to just stress is diversity.

Equity and inclusion is not the end all.

It is a strategy to get us someplace.

I want us to focus on the someplace we're trying to get to and then build the labels and the words and the work around that, not be focused around.

They're going to end.

Okay.

What does that mean?

They're not ending the end.

All of where we're trying to go.

Let's focus on the end result and then figure out the name of the highway that's going to get us there.

Move over here.

Okay.

I'm Jan Ridgeway, and I just wanted to say thank you for the discussion today.

But I also want to say that I as far as number 40, Seven's executive order extends far beyond employment.

Okay.

When you look at a target that has released over to 20, billions are too minority companies because they decided to not do DTI.

We have a bigger issue.

But the question I want to ask you is how does number 47 executive order directly impact?

Lyndon Baines Johnson Executive Order.

One, two, three, four.

When it comes to all of this, and you want to do that one.

So so you since you were around then, Kevin, say so.

All right.

I was just about there.

Yeah.

Yes.

So.

So the point of reference of that particular executive order.

And it was interesting because if you follow what was done, there was an attack on the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that ended discriminatory practices.

So think about it.

I'm now going to eliminate all these other kind of things around diversity, equity, inclusion, and then if you don't comply, it is okay because we have eliminated being discriminatory or discriminating as a as a legal situation.

It was just another another executive order that was rescinded that actually said in four government contracts, we are going it is okay to segregate.

So but it was rescinded.

So it's important for us to keep our eye on what the main thing is, is a saying that we have with the caps keep the main thing, the main thing, and we just need to not get distracted by some of these other kinds of things.

And what is the main thing that we're focusing on and that has to be done by organization, by organization.

It can't categorically be done as, Oh, we're upset about DACA.

Let's understand what that means.

I appreciate what you said about Target.

I see another strategy that I'm going to say off mind to you around kind of how we may want to deal with that kind of kind of approach.

Hi.

I want to thank all of you for coming today.

And I want to thank City Club for putting this together because it's an important discussion that we need to have.

I was shocked and surprised how easily we capitulated to the.

What does it say about our society and about our people that we have not a murmur of resistance to it?

Well, I think yeah, this is the same.

This is the same country, right?

That we were collectively marching together in 2020.

It's the same country that when you ask people if they supported the Movement for Black Lives, the majority of the country at that time said yes.

And I do think there is a kind of a fickleness and a whiplash nature to our culture.

I also think that, again, the majority, when you ask people how they feel about DIA, you get one answer.

When you ask people how they feel about diversity, equity and inclusion you actually get another one, which goes back to the conversation potentially about a lack of understanding.

I, I think is really important for us all to remember, and this is a huge opportunity for us.

The world that we live in, for those of us that are reading every executive order, for those of us that are following every headline.

Right.

That is not the world that the majority of our country is living in.

what are three fundamentals that each business case should include?

So That it is the business case driving toward mission performance or profits that organizations should adopt within their organizations or corporations and if I can get all your information, since you're going to help me write that last chapter.

Yeah.

So thank you.

You absolutely speaking my language right now.

So the three for me and the three for us.

And I'll use an example that would make sense.

And this for the Cavs.

So a business case is one.

This is operationalized where every one of our executives it's tied into performance, it's tied to compensation.

And it's not how many people we hire.

It's how do we engage with our fans, kind of what those results are, how do we engage with our vendors?

How do we engage from our team members?

So one is accountability and tying it back to our executives.

Secondly, it is just making sure that we are really clear on what the business outcomes are.

I have objectives, I have revenue objectives of how we leverage the work adversity, equity and inclusion to yield revenue.

And my president is sitting right here and I'm sure you're like shaking your head, Yup, you do.

Right.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

And then the third thing is to make sure that everybody in our organization actually is connected in a way either through compensation or performance performance objectives with their particular piece of the puzzle fits.

That's every single team member we have.

So it's everybody.

The puzzle was Mosaic for everybody.

I'm Gabriel Cramer.

Thank you again to Kevin Clayton, Eric Merrick, and Mark Swaim Fox.

I'm going to toss over to dan several.

Thank you, gabe.

Great job.

As gabe said, I'm dan walter, chief executive here at the city club.

Thanks to all of you for making forums like this one possible.

You can learn more about how to become a guardian of free speech at City Club dot org.

I believe our friends at Ideastream are in the middle of a pledge drive.

You should also be a member there, by the way.

Our form today is part of the City Club's Health Equity series is presented in partnership with the St Luke's Foundation.

There's a number of guests we'd like to welcome.

I want to start by welcoming 92 year old Mary Warner, who first came to the City Club with her father in 1940.

Very special.

Welcome to you.

Now.

How cool is that?

That's so cool.

We'd also like to welcome guests at the tables hosted by the Center for Community Solutions.

Since the Cleveland Cavaliers, who deserve their own.

Round of applause, please.

Hey, let's go.

Hey, Can't be.

Also, Cleveland State University, destination Cleveland.

The leadership Cleveland.

Class of 2023.

Really?

Clearly a very, very important, critically important class.

Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District.

Oberlin College.

Ohio Guide.

Stone Positive Education Program.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Hello.

Right to Development Corp.

The St Luke's Foundation, Thompson Hine LLP and the Urban League of Greater Cleveland.

Y'all are wonderful.

Thank you so much for being a part of our form today.

Next week, on Thursday the 27th, we'll hear from Citizens Bank CEO Bruce Vanstone.

And then on Friday, we welcome Cleveland Foundation president and CEO Lillian Curry.

She'll be joined by Rip Rapson, president and CEO of the Kresge Foundation, for a conversation about the purpose and the purpose and power of place based philanthropy in Cleveland and Detroit.

Dr. Marc Joseph of Case Western Reserve University will lead that conversation.

As you close out, I just wanted to leave you with this idea that comes from Eric Liu, who runs something called Citizens Academy.

And he spoke here many, many years ago and then again during COVID when we were doing everything virtually.

And he said that the work of this nation is to create the planet's first mass multiracial, multi-ethnic, truly inclusive, democratic republic.

That's the work we're engaged in, and it doesn't stop.

So thank you all for being a part of this.

Thanks to our panelists and to Gabriel Kramer for moderating.

That's our forum.

It's adjourned.

Thank you so much.

Have a great weekend.

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