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Good afternoon everybody.

Welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It's Thursday, November 13th, and I'm Lee Friedman executive in residence at Cuyahoga Community College and a member of the City Club board of trustees.

I'm honored today to introduce our forum, which is the annual David or Shashi Memorial Forum, where we are considering the case for college.

A personal note I want to recognize as well as the family.

Kittie, who is a longtime colleague of mine and her family, have been nothing but supportive and gracious and gene This is a bit personal for me.

I spent a lot of my career on making the case for college and post-secondary, and I think it's a very important conversation for us to be having, not just locally, but nationally and for that matter, much of the last 50 years, research has very clearly suggested that college was the key to unlock the American Dream, and a college degree not only ensured a route to a stable career, but also was strongly correlated with future financial well-being.

Yet in recent years, the cost of education has skyrocketed, and some have challenged the assumption.

But more than 15 million students are enrolled in undergraduate programs around our country at 4000 institutions.

And despite the headlines around elite private, private schools, most of them are in rolled and public universities and colleges.

Actually, over 70% of our college students are enrolled in public institutions.

And that includes community colleges, state schools that prioritize affordability alongside educational quality.

So what is the case for college these days?

Joining us on the stage to discuss this is Timothy Fields, the coauthor of the bestselling book The Black Family's Guide to College Admissions.

With 30 years of experience in higher education, fields currently serves as senior associate dean and undergraduate admissions at Emory University, where he helps lead the recruitment evaluation enrollment of the freshman class every year.

Also with us is University of Akron President R.J.

Nemer who began his tenure at the university in May 2024.

Prior to being named president, Nemer served as the dean of the University of Akron College of Business for more than two years.

During his time as dean.

He increased enrollment, student opportunities, and experiential learning.

He expanded branding as well as forging renewed regional, national, and global relationships.

Now, this is my favorite part.

You'll understand.

Moderating the conversation today is my dear friend and my colleague, Doctor Michele Scott Taylor, the Chief Executive officer of College now Greater Cleveland, which is the nation's.

The nation's first and also pioneering education access organization, serving 42,000 individuals every year and distributing over $9.6 million in scholarships annually.

A reminder to our livestream audience if you have questions during the Q&A portion of the forum, you can text it to (330)541-5794, and City Club staff will try to work it into the program.

So members and friends of the City Club, please join me in welcoming President Nieman Tim Fields.

And to you, Michelle, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay.

Hi, everybody.

Can you hear me?

Okay.

Okay, great.

It is truly wonderful to see you all here today.

While we try to make the case for college, we are ready to lean into a conversation that could not be more timely, more consequential for our students, our community, and our country.

So now the case for college may sound simple, but the truth is, when skepticism is high, as we pointed out, this is an invitation for us to think deeply about what college really means now, because the definition has changed and the value has changed.

For generations, a college degree was the surest path to opportunity, and I could say that firsthand.

And I bet many of you in the room can say that as well.

It leads to better jobs, financial stability, and honestly, a fuller life.

But as journalist William Bunch reminds us in his book that I just finished reading today after the Ivory Tower Falls, the story of college is now much more complicated than ever.

We've reached a crossroads in higher ed.

It was once the great equalizer, but today it can feel like it's a dividing line.

Some people would suggest it might be an institution of oppression.

So in this conversation, we're not just talking about skyrocketing tuition test scores rankings.

We want to talk about trust.

Trust in education as a public good, which I hope many of you still feel that way.

And that trust is that every young person for us, no matter the zip code, no matter the income, no matter the color of their skin, where they come from, they all deserve a pathway to prosperity and success.

So I like to take a second to start with our first question, if that's okay.

And then we already say we're going to make this conversation.

Is that okay with you?

They're going to answer as they see fit.

We're going to chime in.

We're going to make this lively.

I just said, let's make this edutainment so that you all walk away feeling good about your time spent here today.

So our opening prompt, what do you think people today misunderstand about the value and the purpose of a college education?

I'll take that one.

I want to backtrack a little bit because it pertains to how I can answer that.

Michel.

My career in academia has been very short.

It was basically what, was shared about me prior to being in education, actually founded a sports agency that I scaled and then sole TMG, and that I ran IMG golf globally.

So for over 20 years I was an industry.

The reason I share that with you is when I became the dean of the College of Business in Akron is my alma mater, both for business and law.

I really started to look at who were the the young people that were the most successful.

Both in the interview process and after they were hired.

What did they have that that differentiated them from other applicants?

And then we tried to incorporate those things, those experiential things, into our curriculum.

I think a lot of what's misunderstood about college is people say, oh, it's it's just so expensive and I can go get a job anyway.

What they miss is not only do they miss the the core of academia to what you're learning in the classroom, but they're missing the critical thinking components.

They're missing the opportunities to be leaders and student groups.

They're missing the opportunity to to engage and have to work with a group of people.

You know, I always say to my kids, both of whom, did undergrad, and I'll say, you know, they'll say, oh, I'm on a project with people I don't really like working with.

And I said, but that's the real world, and that's where you're going to like, I don't like everybody.

I work with.

Except the people that are here.

I like all of you.

But but it's learning those skills.

Those are the things that that I think is missed.

People say, oh, well, you know, why would I go to college?

I'm not going to be a psychologist.

Why would I take psychology as a gen ed?

You're missing the point.

You're learning discipline.

You're learning time management.

You're learning critical thinking.

You're putting yourself out of your comfort zone.

That's worth an investment in yourself that that helps you propel regardless of what path you're going to take.

Yeah.

The only thing that I would probably add to that is just you.

Also, what is the network that you get from going to a college university?

What is a collection of people?

I think many of us, you know, in this room can think of those of us who went to college like we have friends, we have people that we lean upon that we met in those years in college, and they're very much a part of kind of our daily lives.

I would, you know, also add it's kind of the prism in how we see, you know, college.

You know, often college is looked at, as, you know, and I'll talk more about this, these 150 highly selective schools in the country, in those schools people deem are successful.

There also many of the most expensive places in the country.

But as was mentioned, there are 4000 college universities.

The most students go to those other schools.

College is accessible.

80% of the time at the majority of schools.

So a lot of times people, you know, kind of square college at these highly selective places that that educate less than 2% of the greater population.

When that's not the case.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

Do we do it?

We don't.

Okay.

No you don't.

Okay.

All right.

Let's talk a little bit about the value of higher education and the return on investment.

You did mention that costs are skyrocketing.

We all know it.

For those of you who have teenagers or you've just graduated kids or even for yourself, the cost was exorbitant.

Let's talk a little bit about the return on investment.

We do know that 42% of all jobs by 2031 will require a BA or B.S.

degree.

Can you talk a little bit about how do you communicate the value, even on potential earnings, to families and students who believe that the cost is not worth the investment?

What are some strategies you use at your institutions and in your work?

Yeah.

So, I just immediately just kind of go to I think a lot of times we have conversations in higher education inside the bubble, and we talk in terms and we assume people know all of this information surrounding, you know, what are the lifelong earnings.

And so just very simply, for a student who graduates with just a high school degree, they're going to make less and left less that in the lifetime over somebody who gets a, college degree.

And I think the numbers are over lifetime.

You know, averaging out somebody with a college degree will make $3 million versus somebody who just goes to high school, make $1.5 million over their lifetime, and that's an average.

So just one time, the first thing is just what are the actual real numbers, that are out there?

But I think the other part, as far as kind of thinking about kind of, you know, as we go about talking about this is what are the things outside of I have a job.

I'm making money.

People who graduate from college have better mental health, have better physical fitness.

So there are other things that come along with not only getting a college degree and the money that comes along with it, but also the other things that outside the classroom, that can help you out in that process.

You know, we approach it and being at the University of Akron, where the most affordable option of state schools, in, in the state.

But I always say to our prospective students, you know, it's still a big investment.

It's still a lot of money that you're spending.

We have around 90%, just over 90% of those that graduate the University of Akron are employed or pursuing a higher education, you know, post doctorate or post bachelor's degree or are in the armed services.

So that return is showing pretty quickly.

And our student is, very much the how much is it going to cost me?

How long is it going to take me, and what can I expect to make when I come out?

And we try to provide whether he or she is pursuing something in health and human sciences or engineering or whatever it is we try to provide.

Probably echoing what Tim said, that that real world data to say, you know, these are the facts.

And, you know, what I've always said is if you're going to kind of spend on a luxury, education is probably not a bad way to get that back.

You know, in terms of I could either buy a nice car, go on a nice vacation, or send my child to school.

Your biggest return is going to be increasing.

You know what's in what I was to refer to as their toolbox.

The more education you get, the more tools you have in your box, the more tools you have, the different things you can build.

And I want to see our students equipped to build whatever they want.

Okay.

Sounds good.

So many people know I went to college and I majored in extracurriculars, and I had a great time doing it.

It was it was quite fun.

So that worked out well for you?

It did.

I'm a University of Akron alum, by the way.

I forgot to close it.

Okay.

And a whole bunch of other colleges and universities to have.

We all talk about today that we will not talk.

It's only going to be Akron.

How can colleges better connect learning to earning?

But what I want you to focus on is how do we not lose sight of education's deeper purpose, which I feel like I gain completely outside of the classroom?

Yeah.

So.

And, one of the things, one of my former colleagues said is don't let your college education get in the way of your college experience.

But I think, you know, one of the things as far as extracurriculars, involvement outside the classroom, it kind of all adds on to the experience that you're having in college.

And I think is many of those real world experiences that you have, you know, leading up to this, we were just talking about just having to be an environment where you have to have dialog with people who maybe have different experiences in you, come from different places, maybe have a different perspective, viewpoint, whatever the case is, and you are in a classroom and you have to kind of grapple with those differences of opinion.

And, you know, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

But if you're having those conversations, you're meeting people in a safe place and a safe place in a in a very safe place, and where you have people, faculty, administrators, staff, kind of, you know, kind of having these conversation together.

So I think that part of it is very important, just learning to engage with different people, similar to my kids, you know, I'll say, hey, do the dishes.

Hey, he didn't do it.

That's not fair.

I'm like, fair is a place where they judge pigs.

So so so so, so fair does not really exist.

And I and I think, you know, college presents an environment in which you can learn that, you know, maybe what you think or maybe your perspective, you know, maybe be different than what's really going on.

But I think that's where true learning takes place within those environments where people are free to express their ideas and hear from people who maybe have different ones.

It sounds like you're saying that what colleges do already to show the opportunities for learning is putting students in real life experiences that they'll meet once they step off the college campus, where it's not necessarily so safe and they're equipped to be able to manage in life after education.

Absolutely.

I think it helps them find their voice to to be able to share in that safe space.

And, you know, when I speak to some incoming cohorts, I always say one of the biggest things about coming to college is finding your people.

You know, we have 300 different student organizations at UA from beekeeping, building a hydraulic rocket, finding your people, finding kind of those people you where you could feel you belong, where you feel that you have that kind of common interest, that common thread.

And it's very cliche to say, you know, to be your best version of you, but that that really is what it allows.

And I think also for this generation in particular, not that long ago, you know, my daughter was home and so we're talking she picked up our phone and she put it down.

Then she picked up a phone and she put it down.

I said, what are you doing?

And she said, and she's she's an educated, smart woman.

And she said, one talking to one of my friends.

And I said, why don't you just pick up the phone and call her?

And she said, well, dad, people don't really do that anymore.

But if you can't have that sort of conversation, if you can't sit across from somebody and have a difference of opinion and still walk away out of the room with respect for that other opinion, you know, I always say to the folks, that that work with me.

I said, you know, I never learn what I'm talking.

And so to be in a room where you're listening and hearing different ideas and agreeing to disagree, you you can't get that sort of experience what you do in the real world, but but not to the extent that you can so freely and so unencumbered as you do in a university classroom.

And the other thing is, you know, going to just kind of date myself is, you know, we talk about more than likely for the students who are in this room.

If you will go to college, we'll say, go to college.

More than likely, the jobs, careers that you are going to go into do not exist.

The reality is, is when I started school, email did not exist.

Yes, I'm that old.

And then to see.

I don't say that for me.

I'm speaking for me.

I'll speak it for me.

So, so so you think about, you know, email not existing in the, in the, in the very early 90s.

And then fast forward to where we are now with AI in the advent of all the technology in the fact that, you know, talking about supercomputers and we all have a cell phone, have almost a supercomputer in our, you know, wallets or purses.

If you think about that, you think about what is needed.

Critical thinking skills, writing skills, communication skills.

These are things that are going to be critical because we are unsure what the job market is going to look like, but we are going to need those foundational skills in order to be successful.

In whatever the marketplace looks like as it continues to grow.

Sounds good.

Okay, so you talked a little bit about, students finding their people and finding their place in at college.

Now, we talk a lot about, how to help students find their best fit.

It's almost a buzzword, but it really does mean something that speaks to this idea of where do you feel like you can learn and grow and develop and find your people and make friends and develop community?

But what does fit look like today for students?

Given what we now hear in the in the guys about higher education and its value?

How are you all communicating and helping students figure out if your institution is a good fit, and what does that mean?

Sorry, that was a bunch of questions.

Sorry.

Go ahead.

Yes.

So I'll just begin to just very, you know, practical information as we think about fit and as, go around the country giving, kind of book talks about college admission, navigating the space we say fit in general should factor in four things.

First, cost.

We can't talk about college without talking about costs, you know, how are we going to fund this educational experience.

And it's different from always.

And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about that.

Next is location.

You know, what is the location that I want to be?

You know, in college.

And the reality is, is most students attend college within 200 miles of where they were born.

But there is a growing amount of students that are going, further to go to college.

So what is that location?

Is it an urban environment?

You know, what part of the country is it in?

You know, what is weather, etc., etc.. So what's the location?

And then, major, what are the majors that are offered?

I encourage students to think about three different areas of major they're interested in because if you center this decision around one particular major and then you get to that school and you don't want to major in that, then what is your time going to be spent on that school?

And 75% of students change their mind about what they want to major in within the first year.

So that's why I say have a second, third and maybe a fourth option, because at a many institutions, you're going to come and you're going to be introduced to things that maybe you haven't even known about, like at at Emory.

We have 80 different majors.

So most high schools you have 6 or 7 academic areas.

There might be things that you don't even know about that this college or university could introduce.

So we have a cost location major and then career.

What are the research opportunities.

What are the internship opportunities?

What are opportunities outside of the classroom that will help you go on to whatever area you want to major in?

Are you want to go on in a career?

So we want people to think about those four things.

As far as thinking about fit.

Now I also add there's X factors.

There's do you want big college football.

Do you want to be part of sorority or fraternity?

Are there additional, resources that you may need as pertains to learning differences or things of that nature that may, play into that?

I had one gentleman one time.

He asked me four different questions about food, how later y'all opened, how many different place.

And and I do not know where that young man ended at.

But food was very important to him as you go about making this decision.

So I think fit, you know, is in general.

But those four core areas I think are very important at Emory.

I think as we think about fit, we think about people wanting to be part of a larger community.

We think about people wanting to, you know, kind of what do they want to do as far as their academic interest?

And then, you know what is their voice?

Who is this person?

How are they going to come into this community?

So as we go about thinking about how we're going to put together our community at Emory, at the forefront is, is this going to be somebody who is wants to be part of a larger community?

Yes.

There are students who are very bright.

They can come and be successful at any institution.

But we very want people who are going to engage in this larger community, that we have in Atlanta, Georgia.

Yeah, not not much chat.

I think you, you cover quite a bit of it.

The only thing I would add, and it's really to our, our students from Shaker, you know, when I was deciding on undergrad, I was more concerned with having fun my senior year.

And so I never went to look at a school and I applied.

I'm like, yeah, this one is fine.

The first time I saw the school is where my parents dropped me off at the dorm, and I was like, oh no.

And I went there a year and then I transferred to Akron.

So my advice to you is spend time looking and you should look at, you know, what's an urban school look like?

What's a small school look like that maybe is in a suburb?

What is something that's rural look like?

What's big look like?

What small look like?

Because, you know, I always say to, to folks, come visit Akron, you know, we are going to be the right fit for everybody.

I would love to be in the conversation and have you come check it out, but I'm realistic enough to know that, you know, different things appeal to different people.

If you want, you know, a winning football team, there might be other choices and, you know, but, but, but aside from that.

But if you want a winning soccer team, we're good.

So, you know, kind of look and see what feels right for you.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Okay.

So now I'm going to switch to what I think is the elephant in the room.

And it is still about this cost.

What is higher.

It costs so much like what are y'all doing.

It's it's very difficult for the students that we serve to, to afford kind of the college, the colleges, they would love to go to.

Now.

Yes.

There are many colleges that are affordable and accessible, but sometimes students want to go to their dream school that they grew up thinking about and maybe visiting or watching the football team, what's going on in higher ed.

So, so just so, so, so let me let me start now.

I'm going to put, my, selective school Ivy League type of hat on and just, you know, kind of provide some context.

Emory University has about 1500, undergraduate students at their Atlanta campuses.

We have an Oxford College campus.

And the current sticker price is roughly about $83,000 for tuition, room and board.

And so at places similar like Emory, that is a big number.

I also share the number we give away over $250 million in financial aid, so we want to make it accessible.

However, half of the people at Emory are not on financial aid.

They are paying for freight.

And that is also true at a lot of the other more selective schools.

So while yes, the majority of us do not have the means to cut a check to pay full tuition at not only a place like Emory, but our a local public, a public institution, there are people who are paying that which is driving that price up.

So it becomes more simply a supply and demand issue there.

There are people who are there.

And then you add international population who also have access as international students have to pay full financial aid at all these institutions.

They are driving up the price.

And so while the majority of us don't have the luxury to be in that place, there is a large segment of the population in the United States and in the world who are able to pay the price.

And that's what's pushing that up at is specifically those private institutions.

Okay.

That's all.

I'll hear that.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not saying it's right.

No, no, I'm just saying this.

What's happening?

I thought of a new tagline for Akron for years for the price of one at Emory.

But I will get out of hand.

Right?

Right.

It's like anything else, folks.

I mean, the second highest line item I have on our budget as a university, as our facilities.

I mean, my electric bill for our university is close to $10 million a year for electric.

So think it's the.

I promise you, it's not in salaries.

Our faculty are not living a high life.

People that are in higher ed are in it out of passion.

They're in it to give back.

They're in it to enrich lives of others.

They're not in it to to live a high lifestyle.

But but it is expensive.

We try and I would say the vast majority of our students are not paying RAC.

Right.

We have a very, active financial aid office.

We give out scholarships, we work with college now.

We have partnerships, with one of our biggest supporters.

Jimmy Malone is in the room who fund scholarships for our students.

So.

So we are very aware that while we are affordable, relatively speaking, it's still a lot of money, but some of it is truly out of our control.

I do want to say this, and this is a conversation I have with a lot of of families, of students.

The idea of going to college for free isn't really a thing.

Everybody's going to have to make some semblance of an investment in their college education.

And there are a lot of times people are like, we don't want any loans.

And I say loan is not a bad four letter word.

All right.

Depending upon your situation, it could be an investment in what it is you want to do.

And so, you know, I mentioned, you know, how much Emory costs, but Emory has some very, you know, progressive financial aid, packages to where, you know, depending upon household income, we may fully fund a student for all of four years.

So if a student said, hey, I want to come to Emory.

And, you know, Emory said, hey, we're going to give you $75,000 each year to come to Emory, and then you have to come up with $5,000 in a loan over, you know, four years.

That's $20,000.

I'm not saying $20,000.

It's a lot of money.

But if I say I give you 300,000 and you just have to invest 20, I think that's a conversation worth having.

Thinking about what your lifelong earnings are.

And so I just want everybody to know, yes, the cost of a higher education is high.

But also I think people need to go into it that there needs to be some investment at the family level as far as that, we are going to have to pay some similar amount of money because very few people are going to college for absolutely free and not paying any money at all.

Okay.

Thank you for that.

Okay.

So the other elephant in the room, at least I think so, is really around the changing political landscape that we that we now exist in.

And so I know we believe the mission of higher education is to prepare thoughtful, capable and inclusive citizens.

In Ohio especially, things are changing.

And, and across the country, things are changing in terms of how people view the role of higher ed, how they view those who are accessing higher ed and their views on what higher education is producing.

Can you talk a little bit about how you all are trying to maintain an inclusive, welcoming and supportive environment for what I'm going to call the newer demographic that is trying to get into higher ed, but now there's barriers being put up all around.

Yeah.

So so I'll start.

I think, you know, one of the things is just kind of address, kind of what are the changes that have taken place?

I think one of the biggest changes is, Supreme Court decision 2023 that kind of removed, race from, being able to considered as far as in college admissions decisions.

In my, 20 years in admission, race never defined a decision.

It was defined based upon the student's attributes as far as their academic extracurriculars, what people are saying about them, those type of things.

And so I think that was one hurdle.

You know, I won't, you know, speak, for, you know, RJ, I'm sure he'll do a great job of doing that, but I would say all institutions are still very much committed to having a diverse student population.

However, that is defined on their campus.

They just the rules have changed.

How do we go about evaluating applications?

How do we go about recruiting students?

How do we go about trying to make a diverse, community within the current constraints that we have been put put forward by the federal government?

And then what's happening in a lot of instances is because, of these instances, schools are not willing to put their federal funding are or any additional dollars at risk.

And so they are saying these are the rules we're going to operate in, within those rules, however, we're going to do everything that we can to try and create a diverse campus.

I can say, the work that I do at Emory in my 20 years there, has not changed from the Supreme Court decision.

Now, now, how I go about doing that work absolutely has changed, has changed, given, the kind of the legal landscape.

But the work as far as saying, how can we make the best class possible to have as many diverse perspectives, views, and people on this campus is still very much, a priority.

Just unfortunately, how we go about doing that has changed given the many changes that have taken place.

It sounds like you're saying that, costs are skyrocketing.

And if we want to try to mitigate that, when we get mad at our institutions for making all these changes, many of us are really like, come on now, come on, don't fall.

Don't fall.

What you're saying is, some institutions have to do what they have to do to maintain the funding that they do have, because otherwise costs will continue to rise.

So some of it is you're playing the game to try to stay in the game.

Is that a way to.

So in Ohio, Senate Bill one was enacted, which did abolish D-I on college campuses.

It's a law.

So we have to comply with the law.

I will often get asked, what's your opinion of it?

I don't have the luxury of your opinion on it, because there are going to be people that are for it and people that are against it.

And I want both of those people to be students at the University of Akron.

So what I always say is we shouldn't need a law or an absence of a law to be welcoming for everybody.

You shouldn't need a name on an office door to be welcoming to everybody.

You should be authentically welcome to everybody.

And that's who we are at the University of Akron.

And that's why our student base continues to be diverse, continues to mirror our community, continues to mirror the demographics in Northeast Ohio and beyond as we grow, and that's how we approach it.

Very good.

Okay.

So in a couple minutes, we're going to invite you all for questions, but I'm going to ask my last question here if that's okay.

All right.

So we want to sustain a thriving democracy.

We want to have a competitive economy.

So in college in all its forms, I still think is very much a public good and not just a private luxury.

I hope you all feel the same to us.

The question is not whether or not college is worth it.

It's really how do we ensure it's worth it for everyone?

So my final question is if you can redesign now let me ask this this a better what gives you hope about the future of higher education?

Because many of us were like, come on, it's scary times.

What gives you hope?

I mean, I think having the luxury, to work in a mission and travel the country and talk with students and hear their ideas to hear, how they are energized by the idea of college continues to inspire me.

So just, you know, this, this year, I primarily travel to the state of Illinois, Washington, DC, been out to, you know, California, Texas, and several other places and just, you know, while you see what the headlines are and you see what people are saying about it, to talk with the students and to hear, you know, how excited they are about college, what the opportunities they see, you know, in college is something that's, you know, very, very exciting.

And so I say just, you know, to have those conversations on a, on a daily basis to receive the emails, is something that continues, to give me a lot of hope and inspiration because there is a lot of energy, behind it.

And I think students want to go to college.

They just want to know, you know, how can I get the resources where the opportunities and what is information, to put me in the best place.

So that can be successful in whatever college, potentially may attend?

Yeah, I'll, I'll say it's the students.

You know, I it takes me to a story, because I love spending time one on one with our students.

And, a year ago in this month, I was invited to speak at a sports conference in Morocco.

And so we were able to take three students with me that were funded, all from private dollars from the school, two young women and a young man.

Two of the three had never been on a plane and one had had only been on a plane once, and I was taking them to North Africa.

Right.

And, and so we went on this trip and they they came with me in a week.

And, you know, we toured all around Morocco, and came back and, a few weeks had gone by and, my assistant came in and said, the students that you took to Morocco are here to see you.

They just wanted to stop by.

Was right before we broke for winter break.

And I said, okay, tell them to come in.

And and they made me a, they took a bunch of pictures on the trip, three of which was me falling asleep in a hotel lobby.

But, they took a bunch of pictures on a trip and put it into one of those bound books, and, and they had printed in it, and it was very touching to me because they had printed in it.

Thank you for giving us the best week of our lives.

And, what gives me hope, Michel, is, you know, I always go back to a lot of quotes when I speak, and there's a great quote that success isn't really about what you accomplish.

It's about what you inspire others to accomplish.

And so if I could see 1 or 2 students, or you see that spark in 1 or 2 students and know that that sparks could have a ripple effect on a community or a family that gives me hope.

Well, can we all take a minute to thank our wonderful panelists for an incredible conversation?

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

I'm hoping that we've made it clear that college is not just about earning potential, it's also about the human potential.

And that's what we try to do at college now.

Every day we think that there is universal talent, but not always universal opportunity.

And we want to make sure those two things come together.

So we're excited about that.

I am now going to say we're about to begin the audience Q&A for our live stream audience.

I'm Doctor Michelle Scott Taylor, chief executive officer at College Now Greater Cleveland and moderator for today's conversation.

We are talking about the case for college and how higher education is still the key to success.

Joining me on stage is Timothy Field, senior associate dean and undergraduate admission at Emory University and author of the bestselling book The Black Family's Guide to College Admissions, and RJ Niemann, the 19th president of the University of Akron.

We welcome questions from everyone city Club members, guests, students and those joining via our live stream at City club.org.

If you'd like to text a question, please do so at (330)541-5794, and a City Club staff member will work to try to work it into the program.

May we have the first question?

Hi, my name is Madonna Co.

I work with Open Doors Academy.

We are not to school program.

Hi.

So, I want to ask a question about affordability.

I had all of you and I, I see some of the things that you're saying, but I feel the families that we serve, they do understand the importance of college.

But the problem is that it's expensive.

Apart from that, they are positioned in a way that most of them still depend on their adult children to support homes.

So the children will still go to college and not have experience.

You are talking about the idea of starting or going to work so that they can support the family.

How do we strategize and advocate to the government to make college affordable?

Because we are the only developed country that is still struggling with affordable to a college, there's a possibility that families can still invest.

But no matter how we see the cost is so big for most of the families we serve.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Who wants to take that one?

I could take that one first.

Thank you for your question.

In regards to the one, to some of the adult, students are talking about or, you know, to, to help the household.

And I get, I referenced, Jimmy Malone in our audience, who has sent a bunch of students to the University of Akron through his privately funded scholarship.

One and, one in particular comes in mind, a young guy by the name of Cameron who is basically, working two jobs to support his mom and his grandmother.

But we didn't want him to miss out on the college experience.

And so working with him in the athletic department, he now works for the university, helping our basketball team.

So he is able to earn money and still have that college experience.

Now, that's one isolated, example.

But on top of that, one of the gentlemen I brought with me today, Doctor Matt Acres, is our liaison, our government affairs liaison, spending a lot of time to your point, in both Washington and Columbus advocating what we call SSI state share of instruction, all of the universities, all the public universities in the state of Ohio are part of a consortium known as Iuk Inter University Council from US to, Cleveland State to a school down in Columbus, they we all meet and convene to to advocate with government about that the the the the need and the importance of that support.

So what I'll add is and this is, you know, speaking as somebody who works at a private institution is, you know, utilizing a lot of tools that are available.

So, there's at every, you know, college, throughout the country, public or private, they are required to have a net price calculator.

So going on those sites and seeing how much would it actually cost us to go to that school?

We partnered with an organization called Quest Bridge.

It is really geared towards helping kind of lower first generation students access, college at most of the selective schools in the country.

And so I would say at a place like Emory, we have a program that if a family makes less than $200,000, it's free tuition for any of those students that, you know, we have, you know, financial aid that we can, you know, pay almost all of the money that's available for families who come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and so I think it's important to kind of build out a list, look at different schools, look at the, you know, financial aid opportunities, because a lot of students, unfortunately don't consider, some of the, you know, smaller liberal arts colleges are some of the more selective schools just because they say, oh, I can't afford to go there, but those schools are could be the schools that could provide a lot of money, if not all of the money for students, to, go access a higher education.

So we just want to try I would say I, we want to try and combat under matching to, you know, don't assume that you can't go to a place like Emory, a place like Reiss, a place like Washu.

If that's something that you aspire to do because more than likely, depending upon your situation, the money's going to be there so you can have a full college experience.

I'll just add, we have to continue to push the notion to push the the idea that higher it is a public good and it benefits our society.

I think we the pendulum has swung completely, and I think that we need to do a much better job of articulating why education after the high school diploma is good for everyone, and how could it be good for government in some country?

We have to really make that argument.

I think that's another piece of the puzzle.

Thank you so much for today.

It's been really interesting.

My name is John Chase.

I'm a vice president at the fund for Economic Future.

I'm also going to throw Michael Scope under the bus, because he and I were chit chatting about this before.

One of the most interesting pieces of research I saw in this past calendar year was the Burning Glass Institute's research on underemployment among college graduates.

It's really fascinating.

I encourage everyone to take a look at it, but the headline takeaway from that work was that 50% of all college graduates are employed in jobs that do not require college educations.

What are some strategies that students and families should be taking?

And then what are strategies that institutions of higher education should be taking to reduce those numbers?

I can speak to that one first.

Michelle, you referenced your degree that you had from UVA.

You know, we we've paired down quite a bit through the past decade plus to really look at where the demands are and what degrees we're offering.

So, for example, many of our students are coming for nursing, engineering, human resources.

We don't really have as many of the generalist degrees that that somebody he or she may end up, you know, for example, on a call center at a big insurance company, because our students, are usually self-financing, many of whom are first generation students, they're not coming really to the university say, well, I just kind of want to find myself and study something that I find interesting.

And it's it's like I said, they come in more with the attitude of how many years, how much, and what's my job going to be?

If we don't find our nursing students pursuing careers outside of nursing or engineers pursuing things outside of engineering, we actually have a good problem in both of those, verticals that we have.

We don't have enough students to satisfy the demand we're getting.

Accounting is one of those as well.

So so we're looking at the data saying, where are the jobs and how are we going to offer those degrees again at an affordable price?

And I don't want to give you a false statistic, but but I would share with you based on my knowledge of where I see our graduates coming back and where they're working.

I don't know any of them that have been placed in an area that they didn't study, that that degree was necessary to get the interview.

Yeah, we we, we're obviously had a lot of questions that we were uncover.

But one of the things was on liberal arts.

And so, in my book, we have a chapter called Liberal Arts is a luxury.

And so where we talk about, you know, many students go to college.

Oh, I'm just here for the sake of learning.

I'm going to get this degree.

And I don't want to offend anybody.

So I'm not going to say in what area, so I'll leave that to myself.

But then speaking French no no no no no no no no.

But what I would say is, is does this degree track towards a career Good afternoon.

My name is Scott.

Tomorrow, I'm a retired high school social studies teacher and was honored to serve as president of the Ohio Education Association for the past six years.

I wanted to go back to the political conversation that you had earlier, and I'm not going to put you on the spot, president neighbor, to ask you questions.

Why you are usually when somebody says that they're, you know, I want to turn it, turn it and just look, looking forward.

As you look to the state, as you look to the federal government, and you could say, this is the kind of policy environment, the policy climate that we need so that our state and federal government are true partner in helping to ensure accessibility, quality, positive outcomes for students.

What would that look like?

And and again, coming from the K-12 space, can you also talk about the role of alignment with K-12 and higher education?

As you think about that?

Sure.

Do you want to go ahead?

I was just going to.

So you're asking what is an ideal policy environment that we should be looking towards to help better align state, federal, policymakers in helping us move this forward?

And then how should we better align K-12 with higher ed so that there's more of a seamless transition for students and maybe some efficiencies in funding?

Perhaps so.

So in terms of efficiencies, I'll go back to the the system we have.

Like I said, there's 14 schools in the state of Ohio.

So the University of Akron is 40 minutes away from Cleveland State, 20 minutes away from Kent State and an hour away from Youngstown State.

The presidents were already in the conversation of how can we achieve better efficiencies?

We all have our own billing departments.

We all have our own IT departments.

So and the state is partnering with us.

The Ohio Department of Higher Ed is partnering with us to figure out, okay, well, if you're a student at Kent State or you're student in Youngstown or wherever, you don't really care where the bill comes from.

So do we look at centralized billing?

Do we look at how we centralize, maybe facilities management, how do we achieve those efficiencies.

And the state wants to see that obviously, because it's it's taxpayer money and we want to use those resources wisely.

So there is a lot of conversation.

There is a lot of collaboration that happens between our institution and your elected officials.

I don't think anybody is going to say, oh, it's it's a bad idea to, to back higher ed, but we want to be sensitive with the money.

We want to be stewards, good stewards of the investment the state is making in that, and it really just comes down to, frankly, smart decision making.

How can we achieve better scale?

How could we achieve better, efficiencies by partnering with some of our, our fellow state universities.

The second part of your question with K through 12, we have a really good relationship with Akron Public Schools.

We obviously have a great relationship with college now.

I don't think it's ever too early to start talking to students about the importance of school, about the importance of good study habits, about the importance of having those goals.

My name is Doctor Nicole Wilson.

I am a student success practitioner and scholar here in the Cleveland area.

And my question actually or comment, which I would love to get your feedback on, is related to the case for college pertaining to the colleges themselves.

We talked about what students can do, what families can do, what nonprofit organizations, how they can assist.

But sometimes colleges aren't designed for students that were serving.

Particularly.

We mentioned you mentioned Quest Bridge for a low income, first generation college students.

But when we think about the quest for prestige, so we talk about the age old contentious argument about access versus excellence or prestige.

And as institutions are striving to be are ones, they are seemingly leaving students behind.

Who are the most who would benefit the most from a college education?

So when we talk about the case for college, how do colleges get out of their way in order to ensure that those who are needing the education and would benefit from the economy, in order to excuse me, having that education so that it can be accessible?

Excellent question.

You know what I would say?

I think it's very important that we understand and we do a better job.

Colleges better and, share their missions and what they do.

Like, we started this conversation.

4000 college universities throughout the country.

There are two year schools there.

Trade schools.

There's for your public, there's private, there's historically black colleges, universities, there's minority serving institutions.

There's, you know, tribal institutions for native indigenous students.

There's there's all these type of institutions.

And I think, you know, often we have this conversation very kind of thinking about colleges, a particular type of experience.

I can say that my experience at, Morehouse College, going historically black college, university was transcendent.

As far as my experience there.

There's there's nothing like it.

And so I end up having these conversations at Emory where parents like, oh, did you go to Emory?

I said, no, I went to Morehouse.

Oh, you know, so what do you think is better, Morehouse or Emory?

I said, there are two separate places.

What are you looking for in your experience?

If your culture, your identity is a very important part of you and you want to be in a place for four years where you are more than likely with people who look like you, then Morehouse is a great place and you should do that if you say, I'm interested in being a doctor, then Emory has eight hospitals affiliated with it, has a hospital right there on on their campus.

So there are resources that Emory has at Morehouse does it.

And so I would hope that as we go about having this larger conversation, we really say like, this is what school is this?

What do they offer?

What can they provide and help expose students to that?

Because I do think that there are there is a college for every student in this country is just how do we get the mission?

How do we get students understand what these different schools, what these different schools offer so that the students can benefit from their experiences?

There?

And thank you for your comment.

We're an art institution, and while it certainly is an important part of who we are at the University of Akron, as I've often shared, we wouldn't exist, but for our students.

And so we while we put certainly resources into our research and the importance of it, we also put resources into something we call zip assist, which is a fund for students at if they if their car is broken down, there's money there to help them.

If they can't pay the electric bill, there's money there to help them.

We have something called Campus Cupboard that is particularly busy lately, where students can come and just shop for free, and these are all things that both are supported by private donations, but also by the school, because we want to make sure that we keep those students there.

That's that's our life.

But like I said, research will always be important to every university.

But students are the ones that keep the university there, and we need to recognize that our community both feeds our students our excuse me, our community feeds us, our students, but we need to also feed our community with with our students.

And so we we really do try to balance that.

Thank you though.

Thank you.

President Nemer, Tim Fields and Michelle Scott Taylor for joining us today at the City Club of Cleveland.

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Today's form is part of the City Club's Authors and Conversation series, in partnership with Cuyahoga Arts and Culture and the Cuyahoga County Public Library.

It is also the annual David or Chesky Memorial Forum.

David, where Starsky joined the City Club in 1918 when he was 25 years old and was the City Club's second oldest member, having been a member for 71 years.

During this time he served as treasurer, vice president director of the City Club.

We want to welcome the worship, family and friends who are here with us today and thank them for their generosity and for the over 100 years of support for free speech and democracy.

The City Club would like to welcome students joining us from Shaker Heights High School and welcome guests at tables hosted by the Cleveland branch of the NAACP College, now Greater Cleveland, the Northeastern Ohio Education Association, say yes to Cleveland Scholarship, and the University of Akron.

Coming up next Friday, November 21st, we will be joined by leadership at IBM and the Cleveland Clinic to discuss the new quantum computer deployed at the Cleveland Clinic.

What does it mean to have one of the first quantum computers powering advanced biomedical research right here in northeastern Ohio?

WLKY's Betsy Kling will moderate.

Thank you once again to President Niemeyer, Tim and Michelle, and to our members and friends of the City Club.

I'm Lee Friedman, and we are now adjourned.

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