>> CATHY: WE'VE GOT PLENTY TO COVER WITH THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL, WITH ANOTHER SPECIAL ELECTION IN THE MINNESOTA SENATE AND STATE EMPLOYEE UNIONS NOT TERRIBLY HAPPEN WITH THE -- HAPPY WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ORDER TO RETURN TO WORK, AT LEAST PART TIME.

LET'S DIVE IN, STARTING WITH REPUBLICANS.

PAT GAROFALO, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE MINNESOTA GROCERS ASSOCIATION.

ANDY BREHM, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR U.S.

SENATOR NORM COLEMAN, NOW A LAWYER AND COLUMNIST FOR THE STAR TRIBUNE.

DEMOCRATS WITH THEM.

ABOU AMARA IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW LAWYER.

AND WINTANA MELEKIN IS A PARTY ACTIVIST AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZER.

ABOU, THERE'S GOING TO BE, EVIDENTLY, UNION WORKERS PROTESTING OUTSIDE THE GOVERNOR'S RESIDENCE TOMORROW.

WHY DID THE GOVERNOR DECIDE TO POKE THE UNION BEAR WITH THIS ORDER TO GO BACK TO WORK?

>> LOOK, I DON'T THINK IT'S POKING THE BEAR, I THINK IT'S LOOKING AT AN ECONOMIC REALITY, PARTICULARLY IN THE TWIN CITIES, BUT, REALLY, ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

YOU'RE SEEING A HALLOWING OUT OF METROPOLITAN CENTERS.

>> Cathy: STATE WORKERS TO HELP METROPOLITAN CENTERS.

>> IF I WAS A STATE WORKER, I'D LIKE TO BE HOME AS WELL.

HE'S TRYING TO BALANCE TWO THINGS HERE, RIGHT?

MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE GOING BACK TO DOWNTOWNS, LIKE St. PAUL AND MINNEAPOLIS.

WE'VE SEEN, FOR EXAMPLE, GROCERY STORES CLOSE BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD THE FOOT TRAFFIC.

STATEMENT, GIVING WORKERS FLEXIBILITY THE THIS IS A LABOR MANAGEMENT ISSUE, THEY'RE GOING TO WORK IT OUT.

THE POINT THE GOVERNOR IS POINTING TO, IS AN IMPORTANT ONE THAT ALL OF US NEED TO BE CONSIDERING.

>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO CREDIT MYSELF FOR THAT.

I WROTE IN THE STAR STRIB UNI"ON MONDAY THAT HE SHOULD DO THIS.

I'M SURE THE GOVERNOR IS FOND OF TAKING MY ADVICE.

STAR TRIBUNE.

I'M JOKING.

>> Eric: WHY IS HE DOING SOMETHING THAT THE REPUBLICANS HYPOTHETICAL HIM TO DO, THE EMPLOYEE UNIONS ARE BIG DEMOCRATIC DONORS AND SUPPORTERS.

>> LET'S REMEMBER WHAT HE'S DOING.

50% OF THE TIME, THIS ISN'T A BIG ASK.

PRETTY TONE DEAF FOR THESE UNIONS TO BE PUSHING BACK ON SOMETHING THAT MOST OF US IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR ARE DOING ANYWAY.

ALSO, St. PAUL'S IN DEEP DEEP TROUBLE.

MAYOR CARTER'S FOR RE-ELECTION THIS YEAR.

PEOPLE ARE PRETTY EXHAUSTED WITH STATE EMPLOYEES NOT BEING IN THE OFFICE.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> AS SOMEONE WHO LIVES DOWNTOWN, I DO THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A PLAN TO BOOST THE ECONOMIC REVENUE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE EXACT RIGHT THING.

I THINK WHAT SHOULD HAVE OCCURRED, WE SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT LABOR EXAMINE WORKERS TO THE TABLE TO MAKE A DECISION AND A PLAN THAT MADE SENSE, ON A TIMELINE THAT CONSIDERED WHAT THE NEEDS ARE OF DOWNTOWN AND WORKERS.

YOU CAN DO BOTH AND YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CHOOSE TO DO BOTH.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS BEHIND THE GOVERNOR'S DECISION?

>> St. PAUL'S DYING.

IT'S IN TROUBLE.

AND IT NEEDS HELP.

AND ONLY THESE FRINGE UNIONS WOULD THINK THAT BEING ASKED TO SHOW UP IN THE OFFICE HALF THE TIME IS SOMEHOW PROVOCATIVE OR CONTROVERSIAL.

AND, SO, I THINK IT'S JUST A SIGN OF THE TIMES.

OUT IN REAL MINNESOTA, WHERE PEOPLE ARE SHOWING UP AND WORKING, THEY DON'T REALLY VIEW THIS AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN JUST MORE UNION WHINING FROM GOVERNMENT WORKERS.

>> Eric: MEDICAID CUTS, AND WHAT HAPPENS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THE GOVERNOR'S GOT SOME CUTTING.

REDUCING THE RATE OF GROWTH, I SUPPOSE, IS THE MORE -- IS THIS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM IN, LIKE, GREATER MINNESOTA?

WHERE THE NURSING HOMES AND THE HOSPITAL ARE KIND OF THE MAJOR EMPLOYERS.

WHERE ARE WE HEADED HERE?

HOW TOUGH ARE THESE VOTES GOING TO BE FOR LAWMAKERS TO TAKE?

>> LOOK, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, FEDERAL FUNDS, PARTICULARLY AROUND MEDICAID, DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACT GREATER AMERICA, GREATER MINNESOTA.

AND O, WHEN YOU HAVE A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS HOSTILE TO PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP THOSE FOLKS, I THINK WHEN YOU PLAY STUPID GAMES, YOU WIN STUPID PRIZES.

THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES, IF IT CUTS MILLIONS AND BILLIONS F DOLLARS, FOLKS ARE OING TO FEEL IT.

IT'S NOT GO TO BE SOME ABSTRACT THING, YOU'RE GOING TO FEEL IT ON THE GROUND.

>> FIRST OF ALL, LET'S REMEMBER, THERE WAS AN HISTORIC EXPANSION OF MEDICAID UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

SO REINING SOME OF THAT IN IS PRUDENT, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT A ATIONAL DEBT LIKE WE DO AND THE COUNTRY'S GOING BANKRUPT.

SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE FEELING T, AGAIN, THERE'S THIS REMARKABLE EXPANSION OF THE WELFARE STATE UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT DONALD TRUMP IS SIMPLY PARING BACK.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING EXTREME ABOUT THAT.

>> IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT, THERE'S A REPORT THIS WEEK IN THE W "WALL STREET JOURNAL," THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PAY FOR MEDICAID INSURANCE TO THE SAME PEOPLE IN TWO SEPARATE STATES.

BASICALLY INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE DOUBLE DIPPING.

THAT'S THE SORT OF CUT THAT I THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STOP WASTING MONEY ON.

AND WE HAVE $2 TRILLION DEFICIT.

>> Cathy: YOUR FRIEND IS COMPLETELY DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

>> INSURANCE COMPANIES SHOULD DOUBLE DIP, YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF THAT?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION, CAN WE BE MORE EFFICIENT?

THE QUESTION IS YES.

WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A SCALE OF 60, 70, 80 BILLION DOLLARS, POINTING TO 80 MILLION HERE, PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR, FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING THE SYSTEM.

>> CAN WE AGREE THAT THE HHS DEPARTMENT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL SHOULD NOT HAVE 40 COMMUNICATION OFFICES, CAN WE AGREE ON THAT?

CAN WE PARE THAT DOWN TO MAYBE LIKE 15 OR 10?

DO WE REALLY NEED 40?

>> Eric: WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS IN RESPONDING TO PRESIDENT TRUMP?

IS IT LET HIM BURY HIMSELF?

THEY MIGHT SAY.

OR IS IT TAKE HIM ON FRONTALLY?

OR IS THERE A CONSENSUS?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CONSENSUS.

I THINK THERE'S FOLKS ON EVERY SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH IT.

AND KNOWING THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE FOUR YEARS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND FOLKS ARE TRYING TO PRIORITIZE WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE.

>> Eric: WHAT TIM WALZ'S ROLE HERE?

>> I THINK TIM WALZ IS IN THAT SAME POSITION.

I THINK HE HIMSELF IS FIGURING OUT, DO I RUN FOR GOVERNOR, DO I RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN FOUR YEARS?

AND I THINK HE'S, HIMSELF, IS PROCESSING.

I THINK FOLKS GOT VERY UPSET THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE WORKING CLASS, BUT THEY'RE NOW SEEING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY S DROPPING THE WORKING CLASS.

AND PUNISHING THEM BY TAKING AWAY THEIR HEALTHCARE, BY INCREASING THE COST OF LIVING WITH TARIFFS, AND FOLKS ARE NOW RE-ASSESSING AND QUESTIONING, DID THEY MAKE A MISTAKE IN NOVEMBER, AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S PREPARING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO RESPOND IN THE BEST WAY.

>> Cathy: THE GOVERNOR DID SAY, I HAVE A NATIONAL PLATFORM, SO WHY SHOULDN'T WE USE IT?

>> I THINK HE THINKS HE DOES.

I DON'T HEAR FROM ANY DEMOCRATS CLAMORING FOR TIM WALZ, WHO'S PRETTY FAR LEFT GUY AND I THINK WAS REGARDED AS NOT A PARTICULARLY SUCCESSFUL RUNNING MATE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

THE GOVERNOR, I THINK, IS DELUSIONAL, I THINK HE LIKES CROWDS, I THINK HE LIKES BEING IN THAT FORMAT.

BUT I DON'T THINK HE'S DOING HIMSELF ANY FAVORS, CERTAINLY NOT THE STATE, IT'S PRETTY EMBARRASSING.

>> THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WHEN A ARTY IS HISTORICALLY OUT OF POWER, THIS IS A NATURAL PROCESS FOR DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS TO COMPETE FOR WHAT THE VISION OF THE PARTY'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE MOVING INTO THE FUTURE.

NO DIFFERENT IN 2016 WHEN BARACK OBAMA DESTROYED BOTH REPUBLICANS AND YOU GUYS WERE GOING INTO 2016, DECIDING WHAT WAS GOING TO BE THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND YOU CHOSE DONALD TRUMP.

>> YEAH, BUT -- >> LE BE HONEST HERE, OKAY.

THIS LAST MONTH HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT MONTH FOR THE FAR LEFT FRINGE OF THE DFL.

THEY STARTED OUT -- DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THEY STARTED OFF BY CRITICIZING THE ADMINISTRATION FOR DEPORTING VENEZUELAN GANG MEMBERS TO EL SALVADOR, BLEW UP SCHUMER BECAUSE HE OULDN'T REFUSE TO SHUT THE GOVERNMENT NOW.

THEY'RE SO UPSET, THEY'RE BURNING UP ELECTRIC CARS, THE LEFT FRINGE IS.

SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE FAR LEFT IS HAVING ALMOST ITS TEA PARTY-LIKE MOMENT.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

YOU GUYS MADE BIG NEWS TONIGHT.

ANGIE CRAIG'S INTERVIEW, SHE'S RUNNING.

SHE'S RUNNING -- >> Cathy: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ALL THAT.

AND I WANT TO GET BACK TO THAT IN JUST A MINUTE.

PUT A PIN THAN IN THE WALZ THING HERE.

>> LOOK, HE'S BEEN HANDED A PLATFORM.

I MEAN, PEOPLE KNOW HIM ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT.

OF COURSE, HE HAS A PLATFORM.

HE SHOULD BE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

WILL HE BE THE NOMINEE ULTIMATELY?

TIME WILL TELL BUT HE SHOULD BE OUT THERE MAKING HIS CASE.

>> Eric: ANGIE CRAIG.

>> HIS.

>> Cathy: DID YOU GET TO SEE THE INTERVIEW?

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> GOOD FOR HER.

YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T BE THE -- SHE WOULDN'T BE THE CANDIDATE OF MY CHOOSING, I THINK I WOULD WANT SOMEONE THAT'S READY TO PRIORITIZE PROGRESSIVE ISSUES.

YOU CAN'T DENY THAT SHE'S WILDLY POPULAR.

YOU CAN'T DENY THAT THERE WOULD BE FOLKS THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT.

I THINK WHAT THE PARTY NEEDS NOW IS A PROGRESSIVE CHAMPION.

>> Eric: YOU GOING TO HAVE SERIOUS CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR AND ENATOR?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THESE RACES ARE UP FOR GRABS, MINNESOTA IS A 50-50 STATE.

YOU'RE RIGHT, WE'VE HAD POOR STATEWIDE CANDIDATES IN THE PAST.

I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THESE RACES, AND I THINK REPUBLICANS WILL DO WELL.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE CRAIG DID SOUND LIKE SHE WAS INTERESTED.

>> AS SHE SHOULD BE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CANDIDATES WHO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT THE STATEWIDE LEVEL, AMY KLOBUCHAR, TINA SMITH, SHE FITS THE PROFILE.

SHE CAN SPEAK TO THE SUBURBS, SHE CAN SPEAK TO GREATER MINNESOTA.

I THINK SHE HAS A BROAD APPEAL.

TO THE POINT ABOUT US BEING A 50-50 STATE, THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT YOU'VE LOST 100% OF THE TIME SINCE 2006.

>> THAT CUTS DEEP, MAN.

>> Eric: YOU'RE A FORMER LEGISLATIVE VETERAN WHO'S BEEN PART OF DEAL MAKING OVER THERE.

HOW DO YOU ENVISION THE SESSION ENDING WITH THE SO CLOSE MARGINS?

>> WELL, SO, FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE SHARED GOVERNMENT, SO REPUBLICAN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS HAVE TO WORK -- REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS HAVE TORQUE WORK TOGETHER.

I'M CONFIDENT THAT DEMUTH, HORTMAN, MAJORITY LEADER MURPHY, CAN GET TOGETHER AND CUT A DEAL.

I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

YOU'RE SEEING IN IN MINNEAPOLIS AND St. PAUL PRIMARILY RIGHT NOW.

THE CONFLICT IS NOT REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRAT, IT'S NOT LEFT VERSUS RIGHT.

THIS IS DFL VERSUS DSA, THE DEMOCRAT SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA.

THIS IS THE FAR LEFT SIDE.

AND IT'S TRUE.

THE DSA RIGHT NOW HAS THE UPPER HAND.

>> Eric: DON'T YOU HAVE ACTION FOR LIBERTY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE?

>> ACTION FOR LIBERTY DOESN'T HAVE A MAJORITY OF THE MINNEAPOLIS AND St. PAUL CITY COUNCIL.

>> I THINK MINNESOTA HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO HUMBLE THEMSELVES.

THEY HAVE HALF OF ONE CHAMBER.

DEMOCRATS CONTROL EVERYTHING ELSE.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF THIS POLITICAL SESSION, MARGINALLY YOU MIGHT, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ELECTED IN MINNESOTA ARE DEMOCRATS.

>> THE DEMOCRATS HAVE ALREADY CONCEDED THEY SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY AND THEY ANT TO CUT SPENDING, THERE'S A DEFICIT.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU SEE HE SESSION UNFOLDING IN 30 SECONDS?

>> I FEEL REALLY EXCITED.

I FEEL I HAVE A LOT OF BELIEF THAT HORTMAN AND MURPHY CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO LEAD A BIPARTISAN SESSION AND ACTUALLY DELIVER SOME WINS FOR OUR STATE.

>> Eric: PEACE IN THE