(bright music) - Lawmakers moved to set an August vote on a proposal to make it harder to amend the state constitution.

Cleveland Schools chose a new CEO, and Ohio dusted off an old slogan for its new tourism campaign.

It may not be original, but it's got heart.

"Ideas" is next.

(bright music) Hello, and welcome to "Ideas."

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

After months of wrangling, Republicans in the Ohio House voted to hold a special August election where voters can decide on making it harder to amend the Ohio Constitution.

It's seen as a proxy war over abortion rights, because the August vote could raise the bar for passage of a reproductive rights amendment targeted for November.

Akron-based First Energy will move from its Downtown headquarters, consolidating in West Akron.

What will the move mean to Akron's Downtown and what does it mean for big employers and the need for office space post-pandemic?

Cleveland Schools tapped Warren Morgan, currently Chief Academic Officer of Indianapolis Public Schools, to succeed outgoing CEO Eric Gordon, and Ohio looks to its past for its new tourism slogan.

The Buckeye State is once again the heart of it all.

We'll talk about those stories and the rest of the week's news on the Reporters Round Table.

Joining me this week in studio from Ideastream Public Media, reporters Gabriel Kramer and Abbey Marshall; in Columbus, Ohio Public Radio State House News Bureau Chief, Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

August 8th will be the date of the controversial special election to decide whether it should take 60% of the vote to amend the Ohio Constitution.

Legal challenges are being mulled first.

Proponents say the higher threshold will protect the Constitution from outside special interests.

Opponents say it's obviously a move to preemptively thwart a reproductive rights amendment targeted for the November ballot.

Alright, Karen, what a chaotic week.

You had all kinds of protests and maneuvering.

It's one of those issues when you thought it was kind of finished, like, well, we're not gonna meet the deadline, it's not gonna happen, they found a way to bring it back, the supporters did.

- Yeah, this is the legislation that wouldn't die, the story that wouldn't die, and yet, here we are here again.

Wednesday was the deadline to put that 90-day clock in place for a potential August 8th special election, but like you said, most August special elections were eliminated in a law that took effect in April, and so the way that this resolution passed with the August 8th date in there, there are some people who are questioning whether that is legal, and that could be the basis for a legal challenge, but the House went ahead and went with this long-awaited vote and it did pass.

There were enough Republicans to do the three fifths majority to get it through, and now, we're here in kind of a waiting situation.

- So, what we have is really a, it's a proxy fight over the summer because it's really going to be, it seems like those who favor the abortion rights amendment coming out to defeat this August issue, and then those who don't favor that abortion rights amendment coming out in favor of this August thing, it's a little bit confusing, but the fact of the matter is, it's sort of like a vote before the vote.

- Right, and that's why the opponents have already put their campaign out there saying, "Vote No in August.

Vote Yes in November."

So, it'll be the other way if you support the resolution and you don't want abortion rights in the Constitution.

So, it's potentially confusing whatever side you're on, but fortunately, there will be probably a lot of ads that'll be on TV and on radio and everywhere and flyers and whatever that will help you make up your mind.

There's already a lot of money that's been going into this.

The group that, the political action committee that was set up to push this vote, was almost exclusively funded by a Republican billionaire from Illinois, which kind of pushes back on that Republican argument of this is about out-of-state special interests with lots of money trying to buy their way onto the ballot.

One of the sponsors even said though, this is exactly what we're talking about.

This is what we don't wanna see happen and yet, it was happening in their favor.

So, if this August election goes forward, there's gonna be a lot of attention on it.

Whether that will translate into a lot of votes, that remains to be seen 'cause August elections, like you said, most of them are eliminated because they really just don't bring people out.

- And there's been some criticism, we've talked about this here before, that something this important shouldn't be put on a ballot that usually draws such low turnout.

- Right, and the coalition of groups that are opposed to this, that's one of the claims that they've made, is that if you're gonna change the Constitution, it really needs to be done in a bigger vote that will have more turnout, and the coalition, you went through with some of the people in the coalition, hundreds of groups, former governors, former attorneys general, the Libertarian Party, there are even some conservatives that are saying that this is too important to just have it deal with abortion, and I talked to one, Rob Walgate, from the American Policy Roundtable on our TV show, "The State of Ohio," this week.

He's among the Republican conservatives who are concerned about this.

There were five Republicans who voted against this in the House, I think, in many respects, because they're concerned about putting this before such a small potential group of voters.

- That included Representative Tom Patton of Strongsville in our area.

- And Jamie Callender from Concord in Wright County.

- Right.

So, when we talk about the support for this amendment, or this vote in August, we see Ohio Right to Life and the Buckeye Firearms Association.

So, Right to Life, obviously, is because this is tied to the 60% threshold and then eventually tied to the abortion rights amendment, but why the Buckeye Firearms Association?

Why the National Federation of Independent Businesses and the Ohio Restaurant Association and the Chamber of Commerce?

- Well, first of all, the Chamber of Commerce is a big addition.

I think we kind of got a hint a couple of months ago when there was a press conference with the Chamber of Commerce asking, I asked specifically, have they come out in favor of this resolution?

They hadn't made up their mind yet, but certainly, they were leaning in that direction.

Now, they've officially come out and they're partnering with the Hotel and Lodging Association and the Ohio Restaurant Association.

They're concerned about a minimum wage amendment that backers are currently gathering signatures for, which would be on the November 2024 ballot.

So, they don't wanna see, they want that threshold in place for there.

When it comes to the gun rights groups, they're concerned about possible legislation or possible amendments that would deal with anything related to gun rights, so they want that higher threshold as well, and so, you know, it's gonna be kind of this battle here over who wants the higher threshold and who doesn't and the timing of this, of course, is critical because of the November vote, and my Statehouse news bureau colleague, Jo Ingles, asked Senate President Matt Huffman, "Hey, if you don't get that 60% threshold in or people voted down or whatever, and the reproductive rights amendment is passed, are you gonna try again to raise that threshold?"

And he said no, and I think that that's really kind of telling there that this is really about this particular amendment because once you raise that threshold, that means all future constitutional amendments would have to meet that 60% and some just would never get there.

- I was talking just yesterday to someone who's very active in Republican politics.

A few things, one said, "Yeah, we're hypocrites, you know?

We said we didn't want the August elections.

Now we do, and there's a good reason for it," and it was clearly tied to the abortion vote, but also noted that there are a number of other states that have the higher threshold, that this is not some outlier with Ohio.

- Well, there are two states that have a 60% threshold for all constitutional amendments, Florida and Illinois, and Rob Wallgate from the American Policy Roundtable was informing me on the TV show for this week that Florida went from 60% is now considering 67%.

So, if indeed 60% becomes the norm, then where does it go from there?

And certainly, there were some lawmakers during Committee who were asking, why 60%?

Why not 70%?

And so this, for the people who are opposed to this, really sends the message that there will be a problem in getting onto the ballot and that they feel like their voices are being taken away, that this is one way that Ohioans really have access to their government, that they can kind of go around the Legislature if the Legislature's not doing what they want them to do, and if you raise that threshold, that really makes it so much harder to get there.

One of the other things that this bill does, or this resolution does, two other things, it raises the requirement for signatures to all 88 counties.

Right now, signatures have to be gathered in 44 counties, so that really makes it a lot harder, and it also eliminates a period, a 10-day period where, if you fall short of signatures, you can go out and get more signatures and submit them.

So, there's a lot in this resolution beyond just the 60%.

- Right.

I believe Colorado is 55% for initiated constitutional amendments, So there are a few that are more, but if you look down the list of those that do allow initiated constitutional amendments, a number of them are simple majority: Arkansas, California, a number of others.

So, interesting.

It's not a precedent, but it isn't as widespread perhaps as is being characterized.

- Well, and one of the things that Republicans have often talked about is that the Constitution should not be a place for some of the things that are in the Constitution and they want groups to consider going to an initiated statute, which is a law, and the problem with that is you do all that work and then you pass a law and then if the Legislature doesn't like the law, they can overturn the law, they can repeal the law, and so there's nothing in this resolution that really makes it easier to go into that initiated statute route.

So, that's another reason why some Republicans have said, we don't support this.

We wanna make it still possible for groups and citizens to approach their government and put this stuff on the ballot, but without that, the 60% threshold just really makes it almost impossible for many organizations to consider.

- Let me get a fine point on something you mentioned before, which is the signature requirement would increase to getting a certain number of signatures in all 88 counties rather than 44.

That does not apply though, to this coming requirement, the deadline that's coming up in July for a November ballot issue for the abortion amendment.

- That's correct, and what I think is interesting here is that they don't want the signature.

They're saying, hey, we're gonna give the people who are gathering signatures for the reproductive rights amendment a break.

They don't have to get the signatures in all 88 counties, but if this passes, they're gonna expect that that would have to get 60% at the November election to pass.

So, I think they're holding 'em harmless in one area, but not in the big area of the 60% threshold.

- Let's get a sense of what voters might be thinking.

There are a number of other states that have tried to raise, as we talked about, some states that do already have a 60% threshold and some that are thinking about making it even higher, but there are some places where the effort was to make it 60% and those were defeated.

- Yeah, I believe Arkansas was one of those states that had that happen earlier this year.

This is something that, you know, the idea of Ohio's founding document should be difficult to amend.

Sure, there are a lot of people who would agree with that, but advocates who've actually tried to amend the Constitution with some success and a lot of failure have said, hey, it really isn't easy to amend.

I mean, there were, I believe there's been 71 constitutional amendments proposed by individuals and groups since the early 1900s and I think 17 have passed, 19 have passed, so it's a very, very low number that have passed, and so it's really not being abused according to people who don't wanna see the 60% go forward, and you're gonna hear a lot of these arguments, I think, as we approach the August election- - [Mike] Right.

- If you're paying attention, that's another thing.

- [Mike] Yeah.

- There's a lot of people who just won't be paying attention 'cause it's summer.

You're doing other stuff.

- Arkansas, by the way, you're correct.

It's South Dakota as well, but I wonder, you're right about that, paying attention.

You know, we do this every day.

You are living and breathing it.

We talk about it on this show, at least we have for the last two months, almost every week.

- [Karen] At least.

(Karen laughing) - So, then the question is, why is it that sometimes when I'll talk to somebody and I'll say, yeah, we're gonna be talking about the 60% threshold coming up on Friday, and they say, "What?"

- [Karen] I know.

- And have literally no idea that any of this is going on.

- It's really hard to explain.

It's hard to characterize this in a short, you know, there isn't a catchphrase for this, and so you have to explain to people, first of all, that they can even amend the Constitution.

A lot of people don't know that that's how this is done, that lawmakers can do it, that citizens and groups can do it, and to try to encapsulate all this into a very short conversation can be difficult, but certainly, if you are on either side and you care about this and you wanna see your voters go out in November, you gotta learn how to talk about it.

(bright music) - Akron-based First Energy says it'll move its corporate headquarters from Downtown to its campus in West Akron, still in the city.

Much of First Energy's workforce now works remotely as a result of pandemic changes, reducing the need for office space according to company officials.

Abbey, First Energy is a big part of Downtown Akron's fabric.

I mean, it's a huge building that's there.

What's been the reaction from city stakeholders?

- Well, of course it's disappointing.

You know, you talk about, if you're living in Akron, you know this, they've spent a lot of time, money, construction to rebuild Downtown and make it a place that people want to go.

So, in that front, it's disappointing, but Akron mayor, Dan Horrigan, said that, you know, we'll miss you, you've done a lot for Downtown, but we're glad that you're staying in Akron, and that kind of softens the blow that they're not leaving the city altogether, but it will kind of change the landscape of Downtown going forward.

- It's better than losing the company entirely, Gabe.

I mean, the idea is they say our headquarters are still going to be in Akron and they found that to be important.

- Oh, absolutely.

I mean, they could have moved to any other city and to be in Akron proper specifically, the people who work for First Energy are still more likely to live in Akron therefore, their tax dollars, whether it's on things they purchase or their income they make, will be staying in Akron that stays with the company.

I mean, the company will be providing tax dollars to the city as well.

So geographically, it's different, but financially, it should be relatively similar, but like a lot of companies, a good chunk of its employees are working remote now.

So, you know, a need or a desire for a more condensed location makes a lot of sense for the company, but certainly for the city of Akron, you're gonna have to think about, okay, we've thought about Downtown as this hub, this center, and maybe they need to start thinking about focusing on redeveloping the neighborhoods and think of a re-imagining the city that way.

- What do you do with a downtown though?

And I know every downtown is shaking their boots thinking about this.

If we have big employers that say, we just don't need the office space, we're gone, you're gonna have a canyon of empty buildings in America's downtowns.

- It's a struggle, and in the last three years for downtowns have been tough, and I do this every week that I'm here, but I'm gonna do it again.

I'll compare Cleveland and Akron in a similar way where we see restaurants in Downtown Cleveland struggling more so than they were because they're not getting the same lunch crowd as they were pre-pandemic levels, as people are continuing to work from home more often.

So, you have to think, what's gonna bring people to Downtown?

downtowns are often more expensive to live in.

Perhaps the cost of living downtown needs to come down so people who have a desire for a more walkability area will yearn to actually go to those places, but similar again to Cleveland, and I apologize for that, a lot of people in Cleveland are saying, enough with Downtown development.

We get it.

It's great.

We love it.

However, what about the neighborhoods on the outskirts of town that are lacking development?

And maybe there's people in Akron who are gonna think the same thing.

- Abbey, when I read this, it took me a minute to understand it.

So, First Energy is leaving.

It has a lease.

So, instead of walking away from the lease, they're buying the building and then leaving it.

- Yes, that is true, and I think that that will help soften the blow a little bit with the move.

Steve Millard, who's the president and head of the Greater Akron Chamber, said he's glad to hear that they're actually buying that building.

It's assigned to the Akron community that First Energy still has a stake in Downtown.

It still matters to them what happens Downtown, 'cause obviously, if they own the building and there's no tenant in there, they're not gonna make any money.

So, we're gonna kind of see that effort to hopefully get someone into that building so it's not just an empty canyon like you were talking about, but like Gabe said, we really need to look at how Downtown is being developed.

At the same time, we also have Lock 3 construction beginning to kind of make it more of a destination for the concerts, that sort of thing, but you are gonna see some small businesses struggle.

I remember when I was reporting down in Akron when Main Street was under construction, kind of perpetually.

- [Gabe] Yeah.

- [Mike] Yeah.

- Especially with the pandemic, there was not the First Energy staff going down there.

I was talking to some business owners down there and they were really struggling because they weren't getting the lunch crowds, and people just don't really go Downtown unless there is an event which- - [Mike] Right.

- How often is that really happening?

And you're having far less people go down than before.

- There is a desire amongst young people, I like to think I'm still part of that.

- [Mike] You always say that and every day- - I'm getting older.

- You get farther away from it.

- Exactly, (everyone laughing) but I think there's definitely this desire and you can read a lot about how there is a desire for more walkability, more downtown, more condensed living, even if you're not necessarily working in that space.

So- - [Abbey] Right.

- You know, considering, you know, people want to live in these downtown areas, they are just too expensive, and this transition of First Energy owning the building and finding a way to repurpose the building, perhaps there is a chance for more affordable housing in that area, 'cause I do think there's a lot of people who would really enjoy living Downtown, even if their work is outside of Downtown, because the amenities that they provide.

- Yeah, Downtown Akron's pretty cool.

(bright music) The Cleveland Metropolitan School District has found its new CEO.

Warren Morgan, currently the Chief Academic Officer with the Indianapolis Public Schools, will take over from Eric Gordon on July 1st.

He worked in the Cleveland District from 2014 to 2016.

Morgan comes into the job with pretty big shoes to fill when Eric Gordon departs and also, a pretty impressive track record of his own.

- Oh, definitely.

Let's talk about the big shoes to fill, first and foremost.

- [Mike] Sure.

- The CEO, Eric Gordon, who's been there for a while, more than a decade, he's very well liked in the district and he's someone that, you know, for people who understand the issues at hand and how to properly evaluate what he's done, you see a growth in a lot of areas.

You talk about graduation rates, kindergarten readiness, but there's other areas where the district has continued to struggle, but I hope people understand that Eric Gordon and the district is facing some real serious systemic issues that are so much harder than just a CEO, or even the powers that be in an education system, can really control, facing systemic, you know, the intersection of race issues and economic issues and how it relates to the education system, and that's something that Warren Morgan is now bringing in.

I mean, he's spent the last three years or so as a chief academic officer for Indianapolis Public Schools, which is a district that is often seen as more higher rated, and much more higher rated than the Cleveland Metropolitan School District, so he has that under his belt.

He has worked in other nonprofit capacities, and he's, you know, got some connections with people who are already in the district, who are in Mayor Bibb's cabinets, and also, it seems like he's got the attention of the mayor as far as being well-liked.

So, that's what we can say about Warren Morgan.

- Eric Gordon, when he literally handed him the baton, it was an extension of their, of the State of the School speech he gave- - [Gabe] Right.

- Where he said, "I'm gonna be passing baton."

It was kind of funny, by the way, because when he gave it to Warren Morgan, he said, "I'm a runner.

In fact, I just went on a run today, I think down Superior Avenue, so this is really appropriate," but when he handed it to him, he did talk about, particularly his empathy and the idea that he recognized what you just said which is, this is not just, come in and I'm gonna fix everything.

It's a, come in and I understand that there are huge issues to be dealing with.

The students talked about it too, that he was a good listener and that there was empathy.

That's going to be important, it seems, in this school district to have somebody that can listen.

- You know, it's a huge district, there's a lot of kids in the district, but you really, to be able to handle this, you have to understand that every student is going through something different.

A lot of it's, you know, sounding similar, but every individual student is going to have its own individual needs.

It's a district, like I said, people are facing issues of poverty and that relates to education and outcomes of education and readiness for kindergarten, for second, third grade.

I think it's fair to say, oh, someone comes from a district that's already doing well.

How are they gonna handle a district that really needs a lot of work and overcomings, but, you know, he's a Chicago guy.

I mean, he has experience working in another district and being part of a district in Chicago that's facing a lot of the same similar systemic issues.

So, you know, having the ability to understand that and not have this kind of authoritarian, militant kind of situation for students is, I think, appreciated by the student body, but also their parents, of understanding, hey, we're going through some stuff here, you know?

A's and B's are not necessarily because of my ability, but because of outside sources, and that's true of student school district, and to have someone at the helm to understand that is important for Clevelanders as this new position gets filled.

- He also talked about his own experiences growing up and having struggles, dealing with racism at a mostly white college, so some of these things he's talking about are not, you know, I understand because I've heard about it, it's, I understand because I've lived it.

- Yeah, and there are life experiences that come with who you are inherently.

This is a predominantly black school district.

I'm not saying that, you know, this person had to be black in this position, but to have that connection just naturally, and with these life experiences, shared experiences, they can just vibe and kind of be able to bounce off of each other in that kind of way.

It's an instance where topics of diversity really come into place, where you can grow a stronger connection between someone who is in charge, a CEO, and a student.

- Abbey, the mayor has plans for a youth cabinet, and Morgan would play a role in that too.

Tell me a little bit about that.

- Yeah, I talked to our education reporter, Conor Morris, this morning to see if we had more information about that and we don't know a lot about it so far.

He has mentioned it a few times as a way to develop a more holistic approach in addressing these issues, especially, as Gabe was talking about, these systemic issues, and when you look at the pandemic and how that has adversely affected students, you talk about lower reading scores, you talk about mental health concerns, which are way up after this.

You know, you had kids online for years, and if they were in a place, which we'll talk about this later, with limited internet access, poverty, that sort of thing, that really affected education and that's going to be a whole generational gap in some cases.

So, we are really gonna have to take a holistic look at how to improve these issues and that is going to be a major point of concern for this new CEO.

(bright music) - Watch Netflix and you'll see lots of ideas from the eighties.

Ohio's got the same idea, looking to the eighties for inspiration on the new tourism slogan, "The heart of it all," the same one Ohio used in the eighties through the Millennium.

The state's declining population has led to a loss of seats in Congress.

Gabe, does this do it?

"The heart of it all."

Okay, well, I've gotta get to Ohio.

- I didn't realize we were no longer the heart of it all.

(cross talking) (people laughing) I didn't know that it was different, so, yeah, big deal.

I don't know.

Abbey has some thoughts about some good ideas.

Her tweet, she posted some memes about maybe what that's, what we should have instead.

- Yeah, and you know, well, I'm sure someone somewhere will know, but the meme of the astronauts looking at Earth and it's just the shape of Ohio where it says.

"It's been Ohio all along?

It always has been," (cross talking) (Abbey laughing) but I really was, you know, Ohio does have a unique shape.

It kind of looks like the heart.

I was kind of, it didn't make much sense to me when they changed the voting stickers that says, "I Ohio voting," That little shape.

(everyone laughing) - [Mike] Yeah.

- Well, what it was changed to, that you don't know, Gabe, is, "Find it here."

- [Gabe] Yeah.

- I always thought that was funny, like, when I would be driving back into Ohio from somewhere that it was like some sort of a, like a scavenger hunt or something in Ohio.

- [Gabe] What are we looking for?

- [Abbey] Find what here?

Yeah.

- Find what?

Exactly.

- [Gabe] Yeah.

- That's the, and if you let people define it, you're in some trouble.

- [Gabe] Oh god, yeah.

(Abbey laughing) - Karen, you're in favor of the slogan?

- Well, it's already up if you wanna see it.

It's already up on a building there at Huron and Prospect.

I found that out from a photographer I follow from Cleveland, Michael Collier, so it's out there, and there was another one in between "The heart of it all" and "Find it here," it was called "Ohio, so much to discover," so yeah, these seem to be kind of, I guess, forgettable, (Karen laughing) I guess is the best way to put it.

- It's one of those things where you're like, who's getting paid for that, you know?

- [Gabe] Yeah.

- So much to discover.

- Yeah, someone went to find an old book from the eighties and said, let's run it back.

(bright music) - Monday on the "Sound of Ideas" on WKSU, we'll discuss how concerns over the changing climate is impacting the decision to have children.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks so much for watching and stay safe.

(bright music)