>> [old computer startup clicking sounds] [Beep] >> Ann: We can't have innovation and discovery without a lot of different voices at the table.

So it's really important that all of you are pursuing computing and really are there to make a difference and there's so many ways you can do it in computer science.

>> Ryan: If you're building software for the entire world, then that should reflect people of many different backgrounds, whether it's having more women in tech or minorities.

>> Kimberly: You have to have everybody at the table and I feel like not doing that is a complete injustice.

>> Kelley: As young as five years old I hear kids saying, I'm not that technical.

Or I'm not a science person.

But it's not good enough to be just smart or good at the subject, you actually have to believe that you belong in the field.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: Let me grab the door.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: You're welcome.

[LAUGH] Get your foot in.

>> Megan: [SOUND] Okay.

[LAUGH] >> Devohne: [LAUGH] Those bags are so heavy.

My name is Devohne Moore, I'm 23 years old, and I'm from Stuart, Florida.

Right now I am a software developer.

I'm a system administrator.

I work with a couple of nonprofits throughout the country.

>> Sage: These are all the board games I brought.

My name is Sage Mahannah.

I use she, her, they, them pronouns.

I use them interchangeably, so feel free to use one or the other.

It's all good and I am from Oakland, California.

I am doing a major in computer science at Mount Holyoke College with a minor in Mathematics and a data science nexus.

Which is just a fancy way of saying I have a data science concentration.

>> Megan: My name is Megan.

I'm 21 years old and I live in Cranbury, New Jersey.

My parents are both immigrants from Taiwan.

And so my brother and I are the first generation born in the US.

And also pursuing higher education.

I'm trying to learn Chinese y'all, 250 essential Chinese characters.

I'm studying computer science at Rutgers University.

I'm not really exposed to too many women in the computer science industry.

So going on this trip, I'm hoping to hear from a lot of different perspectives and see where it is that I can fit in.

Take a look.

[LAUGH] Inside my sleeping bag there's a rice cooker.

>> Sage: I feel like that was like a Russian doll sort of thing.

Like you think it's a sleeping bag but then it's a rice cooker.

Megan, Devohne, and I will be going on a four week long road trip.

Starting in Boston, Massachusetts, ending in San Francisco, California.

>> Devohne: We are interviewing influential people throughout the computer science industry.

People who have overcome barriers that are typically tied with diversity.

>> Sage: Okay, but the most extra thing I have is.

[LAUGH] A road atlas.

>> Devohne: That's awesome.

>> Sage: It's really, really extra.

It's hard enough coming across to people as a woman.

Let alone coming across to people as being gender non conforming or non binary, and I still get weird responses for coming across as being a woman.

I feel like I need to go on this trip because after a lot of disheartening things, sometimes it's really difficult to see myself in computer science.

I wanna do something where I can work with people and actually make a difference.

I hope to see that I can succeed and to kind of reignite my passion for computer science.

>> Devohne: Here I am embarking on this trip about computer science and I don't even fit this culture.

Like I'm not a white man.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: I brought a bunch of ties because I can hear my mom in the back of my head like, you better have a tie on, why did you not wear a tie?

I'm a thousand percent nervous about this trip, I just have anxiety about everything >> [MUSIC] >> Megan: This is our first interview.

>> Sage: Yeah, interview number one >> Megan: Number one >> Sage: And it's day number two.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: Dr. Gates is a computer science professor and Department Chair at University of Texas at El Paso.

And she's really focused on inclusion and diversity in computer science.

>> Megan: Hi.

>> Ann: How are you?

>> Megan: Good, I'm Megan.

>> Ann: Nice to meet you, Megan.

Ann Gates.

>> Sage: Hi, I'm Sage.

>> Ann: Nice to meet you.

>> Devohne: Hi, I'm Devohne.

>> Ann: I'm Ann Gates and I'm the professor and chair of computer science at the University of Texas at El Paso.

We are an university with 85% Hispanic student population.

I also run the Computing Alliance of Hispanic Serving Institutions.

We're the only organization that is focused on computing and focused on Hispanics.

But the whole notion is that we can't really have innovation and discovery and move that without a lot of different voices at the table.

So we're working with 60 different institutions across the nation to make a difference.

>> Devohne: I like that you talked about having different thoughts at the table because different upbringings can bring in different thought processes and different ways to advance past a solution or get to a solution faster.

Can you just talk a bit more to why you feel like diversity is important outside of that?

>> Ann: Number one, I mean, if you look at industry, when you have diverse voices, there's a 19% increase in return on investment for industry.

When you bring in people of color, it rises to 35%.

And it's to your point that if you have different opinions coming in, different experiences, you're gonna make change.

I see it all the time when I'm working with faculty or I'm trying to solve a problem.

And I have my own mindset on how I'm gonna solve it.

But then as people come in and start asking questions, it's like it opens it up.

We move in a whole different direction and come to such a better solution.

>> Megan: I haven't really had much experience with knowing what it looks like to be in academia and past college, so what was your motivation to have a job, have a family and then go back to school for masters?

What were some deciding factors that led you to make this decision?

>> Ann: So I started really late in the cycle but I always wanted to get a degree.

I heard a talk by someone from the National Science Foundation that was talking about the low number of people of color that get degrees.

I think at that time it was 6% Hispanics get a degree and 2% women get PhD.

And when I heard that talk, I thought, wait a minute.

I mean, I could be the one that did that and I didn't and why not, right?

Especially being a woman, and then being Latina, there's implicit biases, and you internalize them.

And so I decided I would go back and get my degree, to change the number.

So that really motivated me.

I wanted to make that difference, and become a role model.

Computer science is unique in that, there's such a demand for computing skills.

You can get very high paying jobs with not a full four year degree.

But then it's this whole idea of how do you continue to advance.

And so we really want our students to think about going on and getting the Masters and PhDs especially as we look at people of color and women.

Because you have to be the role models to change those numbers.

So, whatever your career path you should be aiming to be in positions of power.

That's where we can make a difference.

>> Devohne: So part of what we do as a part of the road trip is we invite our leaders to sign our RV with either a quote or just a little bit of inspiration for maybe future generations to come.

>> Ann: I'd like to do it.

Thank you so much.

>> Sage: The fact that she kind of realized that if I have the privilege to change these statistics, then I should.

I thought that was really inspiring.

>> Ann: Computer science provides opportunities to make change and have impact, so go out and make a difference.

>> Devohne: Awesome.

>> Ann: Yes.

>> Megan: Thank you.

>> Devohne: Thank you so much.

Hearing Dr. Gates say, I didn't get my PhD to necessarily do research.

I got my PhD to show that I am capable.

[LAUGH] I think that kind of opened my eyes and it made me think for a moment that I'm also capable.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: When I was younger in school, I was always obsessed with science and math.

I was the kid that would be trying to calculate slopes and like angles of things in my head.

Immediately out of high school, I went to Long Island University and I studied there for two and a half years before I had to drop out due to financial reasons.

Having that roadblock of having to drop out of school that hit me hard.

So after I had to drop out of college, I did a 10 week boot camp called Pep Up Tech.

We essentially just learned the basics of being a database administrator using Salesforce.

Now fast forwarding so many years later to where my entire career is self taught.

But I second guess myself all the time within the industry, mainly because the educational part isn't there.

You may know a bunch of technical skills and you may know way more than you're ever asked to do, but because you don't have a piece of paper, you can get jobs but they're not maybe so secure.

Or you will get paid significantly less, and that's hard.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: Being a black queer person in America is tough in and of itself.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: It's very difficult to just live your life and express yourself.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: And so having those few moments where you feel like you can truly just be yourself, it's just wonderful.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: I do perform as a drag performer from time to time.

That's one weight of society that I lift off of my shoulders.

There's such a lack of diversity in computer science.

But I want to be able to come off of this trip knowing that even though I may not be like cookie cutter type of person for this industry, that's okay.

And so I guess just validation and a sense of self esteem.

Is what I'm hoping to get.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: Our next interview is with Khalil and Ahmed Abdullah.

While they did their day jobs in tech sales, they were able to pursue their passion which was really gaming.

And become full time developers on their game Swimsanity.

>> Ahmed: Hey, Ahmed.

>> Khalil: Khalil, nice to meet you.

Khalil, this is Ahmed.

We did Computer Science at UMass.

I say both of us, we did the same thing.

>> Ahmed: We did, I just followed everything he did, for the most.

I really did.

>> Khalil: From there we went into tech sales, and the whole time we were doing that, that was kind of like our placeholder job.

Because we've always had a passion for gaming.

And even though while back then, I probably didn't know as much of what indie gaming really was.

Computer science has really been the foundation of what we're doing today.

>> Megan: Where did you get your inspiration for Swimsanity?

>> Khalil: When I was taking computer science at UMass, one of the assignments was to make a simple flash game.

And you always get that one school project where you're like, you go way over the top of what it was supposed to be done.

Like the teacher's like, all right, calm down, relax.

Well, that was mine.

And I made a game called Swimsanity The Adventures of Mooba Jiver the Scuba Diver.

And I made that game and I let people in my class play it, and they kind of liked it.

>> Ahmed: We literally had no idea what it meant to be like a professional developer.

So we're like, well, we'll figure it out.

Let's just kind of learn together.

So we kept building, kept building and really within the last year and a half ago, was when we were like, all right, this is like what it should be.

>> Khalil: There's definitely a big process of getting that job that you might not love, but that lets you eat, sleep.

I do this at night and get my full passion together.

And you have to go through that until you have that moment for real.

That took us nine years, right?

It might take some people shorter, longer, but once the opportunity is there and it's clear, I do think that it's important to jump on it.

>> Ahmed: We know this looks silly.

>> Khalil: All right, so that's his unleash move, so everyone's has different ability.

His is gonna freeze everyone temporarily, you want to take us out while we're frozen.

>> Devohne: Yeah, I have to aim and move at the same time.

>> Khalil: You got aim and move.

>> Devohne: [LAUGH] I got a KO.

Especially being a person of a group that's underrepresented, or maybe just being self taught.

Did you ever think there's no way that we can be developers?

>> Khalil: For sure.

I mean, we didn't have like a strong computer science background from high school, and we didn't take any development courses or anything like that.

So you get into these large classes.

It's mostly like white male dominated, right?

So you don't really see anyone who relates to you.

And you're also hearing people who are like, I took this Java Development class when I was in junior year.

I'm literally starting from nothing.

So like you said, you're looking around you're like, am I just in the wrong place or did I walk into the wrong club or something like that?

That feeling is not unique.

Like that's definitely something I went through a lot.

We've had a lot of people write about us because we are black developers which while we are very grateful for that, I always say like it's kind of a shame that that's so rare that it's a story.

There should be enough of us that if you see a black developer you're just like it's another developer.

>> Devohne: Exactly.

>> Khalil: We will not run away from the diversity discussion cuz it has to be there but at the end of the day we let everything fall on our product.

And there's nothing in our product that says black developer, black anything.

It's just a video game.

You let your work speak for yourself.

>> Ahmed: Products got to be really good.

>> Khalil: Either you like the game or you don't, and seeing positive reception around it, for me that's kind of what's driven me to not only do this for ourselves and then hopefully instill that confidence in others.

I want to see other people tell their stories as well.

>> Megan: How do you see what you do to be important in the industry or like, can you talk a little bit about what you think your impact would be?

>> Khalil: It's really about being a role model.

We come across so many individuals, minorities and non minorities alike.

That are just, they're too smart not to have that creative confidence that to say, I can go make games, or I can go launch my own website, I can go launch my own tech business.

There's strength in representation, there's strength in seeing someone as a role model.

And right now, there's almost nothing there.

And we have too many people who are into games, we have too many people who are intelligent enough to make games for that to be the case.

>> [MUSIC] >> Khalil: All right, this is cool.

>> Sage: I feel like most of the advice you get is follow your passions, do what you really wanna do.

It was nice having somebody be like, yeah, it's okay to do something you don't wanna do for like a few years or even up till ten years.

>> Khalil: It says unleash Swimsanity.

That's our tagline for Decoy Games.

>> Sage: Just as long as you know when the right moment is to actually follow your dreams.

>> Megan: [LAUGH] All right.

>> Devohne: One thing that I like that they said was, even though it's great to have that educational background when going into the computer science field, it's not always necessary.

Just recognize me for my skills and for my talent and for what I'm able to do.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: Growing up, I didn't really see myself wanting to do computer science.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: My parents are both really traditional.

They have an expectation for me to still get good grades, and still do well in school, but they eventually want me to marry and stay at home and take care of the kids cook and clean.

I think something that I'm struggling with is being able to balance expectations and what my own definition of success means.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: In high school, I always remember that walking past the computer science lab, I was really afraid to go in because I always heard a bunch of guys talking and everyone's playing games and they're really rowdy.

And that kind of turned me off from, I don't know, being the only girl and stepping in and being like, I have no idea what's going on.

Can someone teach me or can someone help me out?

Girls Who Code was what really made me feel comfortable being in a community where I saw that a lot of people were similar to me.

They were all a little bit shy, and not really sure if this is something that they would want to pursue.

That environment made me feel a lot more comfortable and it kinda gave me my first start to computer science.

>> Megan: [LAUGH] That's actually why I came to Rutgers as well.

I picked two other schools.

But when I found out that Rutgers was kind of starting this computer science living learning community where it was grouping women who were interested in pursuing computer science.

And we're all gonna be living together, going through the same hardships and struggles, I was like, wait, this is exactly what I wanted.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: I definitely second guess myself a lot.

I've been fortunate enough to have internships at major companies.

And often when I share that with my male counterparts, they're like, yeah, you only got that because they needed to fill a diversity quota.

It makes it really difficult to be proud of my accomplishments as a woman working in computer science.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: I'm most excited just because Kim kind of represents one of those badass women in computer science to me.

>> Megan: She's working on her PhD, she's writing a book, and she's a mom.

>> Sage: I feel like in computer science, it's like, if you're a woman, yes, you're a woman, but also, you're gonna be dressing like a man.

You're gonna have to like basically fit in with the guys.

>> Devohne: Be one of the guys, right.

>> Sage: And so, I think it's cool that she's like, you know what?

Screw that.

>> Megan: Super exciting.

>> Kimberly: Hi.

>> Megan: Hi, nice to meet you.

>> Devohne: Kim Arcand is the visualization lead for NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory.

>> Kimberly: Well, welcome to the observatory.

Wanna head in?

>> Megan: Yeah.

>> Sage: She's done tons of things from writing books to creating the first 3D model of a supernova.

>> Kimberly: My name is Kim Arcand and and I am the visualization lead for the Chandra X-ray Observatory, which is essentially operated for NASA by the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, which is where we are today.

Chandra goes about a third of the way to the Moon at its farthest point.

So it's up there in outer space studying things like exploding stars, areas around black holes, colliding galaxies.

Pretty cool stuff, or I should say hot stuff because it's- >> Sage: [LAUGH] >> Kimberly: Really high energy material that we're investigating.

To boil it down, what I do is I take data of some object in the universe and try to tell a story from it.

Data in an archive has potential value, but it's not until you do something with that data, you tell some story with it, you bring it to some other form for a person or an audience, that that data then has added value to it.

>> [MUSIC] >> Kimberly: We're looking at supernova remnant Cassiopeia A, it's an exploded star and all of the sciency goodness has come tumbling out.

Red is the iron, the blue is the silicon and in the VR version, you can fly down the jets right to the neutron star and be inside this fantastic star.

>> Megan: I guess for me, leaving school, not knowing where it is that I see myself in the computer science industry, are there any things that you would change about your path or wish you could have done differently?

>> Kimberly: When I started out in computer science, I always presented very feminine.

At the time, for some reason I remember this outfit completely, it was a bright yellow top and a very floral skirt.

And I'm walking around this computer science conference, and I'm just like, [LAUGH] I felt so out of place.

And I don't think I realized at the time, but I just started changing slowing the way I presented.

I started dressing down like khakis and a baggy sweater type of things that just kind of seemed like the uniform, right?

And that was that idea of thinking I could blend in, for what reason, I don't know, making things easier, I guess, or not drawing as much attention to myself physically.

And I kind of put my head down and did the work for those first like 5, 6, 7 years.

I was just finding my place, and then I looked up one day and it was after the birth of my daughter.

And I looked around and I was like, nothing has changed.

When I saw my daughter becoming very much into science, which I just love, and I thought, if she goes into this career, what is the field gonna look like for her?

And it was a true light bulb moment, and I felt almost embarrassed that I had waited that long.

And it was, I think, really important for me to have that personal expression again.

I would really love to see way more improvements in the representation and the makeup of this industry, but that's been really slow to happen yet.

>> Megan: After hearing her story, it's made me reflect on myself and what kinds of things I've been changing to try to fit in this mold.

>> [MUSIC] >> Kimberly: The universe [LAUGH] is yours to discover.

>> Megan: When I went to my first Hackathon, I was really similar in that I saw all the guys wearing these hoodies and I was here with this bright pink backpack and I was like, hey, why does no one else look like me?

I really enjoyed this.

I'm trying to be more aware of bringing my full self to this industry, and making sure that whatever industry I end up being in, or whatever company, will accept me for who I am.

>> Devohne: One of my dreams was always to drive across the country.

So the fact that we're starting to do that, it's exciting for me.

>> [SOUND].

[MUSIC].

>> Megan: As the trip has progressed, I've realized that all of us feel slightly out of place, but I think that's something that everyone that we've talked so far has also experienced.

So it's almost like there is no perfect path to computer science.

>> Sage: For me, this trip was kind of figuring, like did I see a place where I can be actually making a positive difference within computer science?

Or is this a time to reevaluate and change gears?

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: I think getting encouragement is a huge deal, simply because I think without that I wouldn't have gotten into a lot of the things I'm currently in.

I wouldn't be in computer science if literally one person hadn't encouraged me to take the intro computer science course.

I wouldn't be into baking if it wasn't for my dad.

I wouldn't be into making things if it wasn't for the maker's space.

It's all these different things that really pushed me into this direction.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: What I love about computer science, I love how everything is just a puzzle.

You're given a problem and you just have to find a solution to it.

It really allows you to be creative, which is something I wasn't expecting.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: Especially cuz you already know how to 3D model.

>> Yeah.

>> Sage: That's half the battle.

Literally it's just heating up plastic, moving it around.

Yeah.

Anybody who tells you 3D printing's more than that, they're lying.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: I think something I struggle with is kind of thinking about how I'm going to break into computer science.

I had never done computer science before college.

And the moment I got to college, I was with people who had been learning how to code since like ninth grade.

I felt like so behind everyone else that it was just like, why even bother?

I'm really not sure what I wanna do after I graduate.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: I remember I was on the phone with an interviewer and he asked, is this Sage?

And I said, this is she.

He immediately responded, I didn't know I was going to be talking to a she.

And just realizing like, would you have preferred my other pronoun because I think that would have gotten an even weirder response from you.

I've never known any non-binary professionals in computer science.

There's a lot of times where I just feel like I don't fit in or I'm not smart enough, or that maybe this is a sign from the universe telling me I shouldn't be in computer science.

>> Sage: Kelley Cambry is an entrepreneur.

She currently works in New York where she's the CEO slash founder for Blue Studios.

It's a surface where she's able to connect kids with high quality online instruction in a bunch of STEM fields.

>> Devohne: I know for pretty much all of us, we all kind of feel that we would have benefited from being introduced to computer science earlier.

And that's exactly what Kelly aims to do.

>> Kelley: Hey everybody, come on in, come on guys.

Welcome.

I'm Kelley Cambry.

I'm the co-founder and CEO of Blue Studios.

Blue Studios is a live stream and on demand platform, broadcasting the best and most entertaining STEM classes for kids.

>> Ronnie: I'm coming to you live at Blue Studios, this is science time with Ronnie J.

>> Kelley: Thanks for tuning in.

Let's get to coding.

>> Speaker 14: Have fun in your lesson.

>> Kelley: We have everything from coding, microbiology, botany, robotics, you name it we've got it at Blue Studios.

Growing up I actually was coding at home with my parents' computers.

But when I went to school there wasn't that much talk about computer science, especially girls and computer science, kids of color.

So it wasn't until there were things like Girls Who Code and Black Girls CODE popping up across the country.

I got back into it and it was like a lot of fun.

I started to teach and I realized that it's actually really hard teaching adults, you actually do need to start this process a lot earlier.

>> Megan: What made you realize that you wanted to start with K through 12 as opposed to just middle school and high school?

>> Kelley: I've done actually a lot of research on this, and there's a term called like STEM identity.

It's this concept that basically for what they call non-dominant groups of STEM, which are girls, kids of color, it's not good enough to be just smart or good at the subject, you actually have to believe that you belong in the field.

And so that concept actually develops really early in kids.

>> Sage: Although I'm originally from Oakland, I went to school in this really small town.

So it wasn't an option to even go into these fields.

When I came to college, everybody else was coming from way more advanced backgrounds.

What sort of advice do you have for people who have already missed the train for learning as a kid?

Cuz not everybody has the opportunity.

>> Kelley: I think a lot of people have that issue where you know what academic lane you're in in high school and then you go to college and you're like, whoa, there are people who are like way better than me.

[LAUGH] >> Sage: Yeah.

>> Kelley: And I'm like what is going on?

I feel like when you're sitting in those classrooms with those professors or those other students who have like this bravado, I think you just have to brush it aside and have confidence in yourself to know, hey, we don't all know the answers all the time but we can figure them out.

That's literally what the Internet is for, that's why we're in these classrooms.

And I think once you do that, it's just like, hey, I'm just as good as anybody else.

And so I have to continuously do that for myself too.

>> Devohne: Could you speak a little bit to your experience being a black woman in this industry and being in this space?

>> Kelley: I know that folks when they see me I'm this bubbly looking [LAUGH] black woman with this crazy hair.

And so I think they, a lot of assumptions come to mind about, you're probably not that technical or you're not smart.

But I understand that going in, and a lot of times sometimes I use that to my advantage to get into places.

[LAUGH] I feel like STEM and just a lot of things kind of present themselves as this ivory tower that you have to be invited into.

And I believe everybody should be able to make decisions for themselves.

Not everybody is gonna be a neuron scientist or a materials engineer, and it's like that's not necessary.

But for me giving kids and families access to early STEM education just gives you more options.

All right, so I think this [INAUDIBLE] >> Devohne: Thank you so much.

>> Kelley: Of course.

Yeah, I'm so glad to see you.

Come on guys, give me a hug.

[LAUGH] Love it.

All right, see you later.

[LAUGH] >> Sage: I wasn't really exposed to computer science at a young age, so I think it's really important to have services like that because it's so important to give people at least the option.

That's really cool that Kelley Cambry's giving people the opportunity to actually make that decision for themselves.

>> Megan: We are in Washington DC and we're about to speak to Kelsey Campbell.

>> Devohne: Kelsey Campbell is a data scientist and they also have a passion project called Gayta Science which analyze data and kinda highlight stories that are important to LGBTQ issues.

>> Sage: I'm really excited to ask about their experiences being non- binary in tech.

>> Devohne: I definitely would like for Kelsey to speak to how they've stayed true to themselves throughout their experiences.

>> Kelsey: Hello.

>> Sage: Gotta wait for the stairs first.

>> Kelsey: How's it going?

So I'm Kelsey.

I'm also non binary, so I use either they, them or she, her pronouns I'm kinda indifferent as well, but for visibility sake, I like to put it out there.

This is Gayta Science, it's a side project that I started to try to tell the LGBTQ plus experience through data stories, data journalism, data visualizations.

So I actually kept data on kind of my experience for three years to better understand myself in the world.

So the first data visualizations I made were just super basic stuff to help me get an understanding of my gender.

So I'd have super feminine periods and then I would be more gender neutral or genderqueer for a little bit, and then I'd have super masculine periods where I'd have a traditional transgender experience.

And just seeing that mapped out was like super eye opening to me cuz in the moment when I wasn't keeping track, it would feel like I was constantly all over.

And I felt very out of control just with all the emotions that would come with that.

It helped me understand myself, but then after kind of going through that process I was like, this could be helpful for others going through it or others just trying to understand gender beyond the binary.

>> Devohne: Not really having a lot of queer role models to look up to and then also not really having a lot of black role models to look up to in computer science space.

Could you just speak to how important you feel that visibility is?

>> Kelsey: As soon as I got introduced to data, I realized how sparse the data is about our community.

And historically that's how a lot of injustices get masked.

Cuz people gonna be like, on average everyone's doing well.

But then you break it down by race, you break it down by gender, and it's like, just kidding, [LAUGH] everyone's not doing well.

I feel like when you're like the onlys in an environment, you find yourself being that only voice a lot.

And you're always kind of walking this tight rope about prioritizing other people's comfort levels.

At my current job I feel like I'm tolerated, not so much accepted, but I don't hide anything.

>> Megan: Was there ever a moment where you doubted your choices about going into tech?

And if so, how did you combat those feelings?

>> Kelsey: It was a culture shock coming into the computer science world, the tech bro environment is real and it's not fun [LAUGH] if you're not in that group.

But for me, I try to look at the options.

I could just wear feminine and put on a show for you and then feel terrible later, or I can dress how I want and be authentic and you might not like it as much, it might not go well, but at least I was true to myself.

It's unfortunate that I feel like I had to prove myself in the industry before I could get basic respect for another gender.

But I feel like with Gayta Science, I've really learned what that environment could be.

Cuz I started putting stuff out and people just came out of the woodwork, programmers, developers, traditional researchers, the most talented people that you can think of all super open-minded who are like, this is amazing.

How can I help?

So just seeing what's possible, it can happen.

It's just companies need to prioritize this kind of stuff from the top.

>> Devohne: Kelsey's interview is definitely enlightening for me because even though there is a big barrier as of now, you have to be visible cuz that's something that is very important to me.

Not compromising my individuality for an organization or for a job, that's something I refuse to do.

>> Kelsey: May your choices reflect your hopes not your fears, by Nelson Mandela.

I find a lot of meaning in that because I feel like if I could go into the world a little more fearless, maybe I could build the world that I hope to live in.

>> Devohne: You have to have people that are willing to stand up and willing to be that beacon of light for others to follow along.

And I think that's something that Kelsey definitely spoke to and also is doing very actively.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: The thing that was really powerful about talking to Kelsey was they weren't trying to be like, yeah, it's gonna be all like sunshine and roses sort of thing.

It's always just better to be yourself because the alternative will always be worse.

That made me at least have more confidence about being open and out.

>> Sage: We're going to talk to Ryan Johnson.

He is basically a software engineer.

He's had a really untraditional path.

>> Devohne: By random chance, you're driving Uber and just by fate, you have two passengers that tell you about the same bootcamp.

That's like so cool to hear.

>> Ryan: Hey, how are you doing?

>> Devohne: Nice to meet you.

>> Megan: Hi, Megan.

>> Ryan: Megan.

Nice to meet you, Megan, Ryan.

>> Sage: Sage.

>> Ryan: Sage, nice to meet you as well.

My name is Ryan Johnson.

I'm a software engineer at ShapeShift.

We're building a platform for cryptocurrency.

Before I got into tech, it was really challenging.

I graduated college during 2008, which was the financial crisis.

I had just gotten married and I had my son, and we had no money.

So not really knowing what to do, I was just like, all right, well, I'm doing Uber, let me just try and ride this out.

And so I was doing that for a while.

And this guy came into my Uber who had told me about the fact of like, yeah, there's this boot camp that will teach you software engineering in seven months.

I was really, really skeptical initially.

And at first my thought process was I don't want to do software engineering because people that look like me, they don't really do that, you know what I'm saying.

And so basically from a 25 minute conversation going to the airport kind of broke down software engineering and web dev, software development, IT, I didn't know about these different things.

And I love the fact that I could actually be self taught.

It's all about what you bring to the table as opposed to your background and what school you went to and things of that nature.

So once that kind of clicked in my mind, I started to realize that it was possible to actually get into the field without having a degree.

I was like, this is what I want to do.

>> Megan: I am getting my education through a state school, but I know a lot of students that are in the industry are from these really great name schools and Ivy Leagues.

In the back of my mind I'm always like, I don't deserve to be here or I don't feel like I fit in.

How do you ever combat that when you're in the same position as someone else but you don't have that fancy name to back you up?

>> Ryan: That sense of not feeling like you deserve to be there is real and it's not something that you should buy into because everybody no matter what you came from, no matter where you're going, it's a collaborative effort.

And you bring something to the table that somebody else may not.

And even if you feel like you may not be as technical as somebody or in that sense, there's always somebody who feels that way as well.

>> Devohne: What has that been like, not really seeing someone like you in the work that you do?

And what steps do you think maybe we can take or maybe you're taking to help change that as far as the future is concerned?

>> Ryan: I am an advocate for the school that I went to, I feel like it literally changed my life.

And so any time that I have somebody that was in my same position that felt like either they didn't wanna do it or they weren't good enough or there just is not a possibility to transition, then I'm always ready to lend them a helping hand about getting into the field.

And it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to go to the same school I went to or anything like that.

I just want people to know that it is a possibility and it's needed so, so dearly.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: [LAUGH] Ryan was extremely open and extremely willing to share.

It was just cool to hear from him that he had a very similar path to me.

He found the strength to push through and do what he needed to do, and that's something that's been true for me as well.

I will always be striving to learn more regardless of whether it's formal education, whether it's certifications.

It made me realize that it's not just Bachelors, Masters, it's like, go for it all cuz it's all attainable.

>> [MUSIC] >> Ryan: Change the world.

There's so many opportunities out here and you can be so impactful, so do it.

>> Megan: [LAUGH] >> Sage: Thank you so much.

>> Ryan: No problem, no problem.

>> Devohne: All righty.

>> Ryan: Yeah, definitely.

>> Devohne: So many of the leaders that we interviewed had a non-traditional start.

Most people, they went to school for something else.

>> Megan: Yeah.

>> Sage: I also feel it's not dependent on even if you go to school.

>> Devohne: Exactly.

>> Sage: There's so many other paths to get into computer science that it's like literally, this is a really unique field in the sense that there's few barriers to actually entering it.

It puts things really in perspective because for several months I was unemployed, out of school, struggling to get work.

I feel like this has given me a renewed sense of purpose.

I need to keep on taking steps forward cuz that's the only way that I can actually have an impact.

>> Devohne: To you guys, I thank you guys so much for being really supportive and just being great because I haven't had that in a while.

I haven't had friends that I've made to be supportive and deal with me because I know I'm a lot.

>> Sage: That's why we love you.

>> Devohne: I love you guys too.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: Leaving Denver, we were just singing and having a really good time that I feel really brought up our energy.

That was a moment where I felt like we were all family.

>> Devohne: We listened to each other's music and we all had a little karaoke moment and it was just a really great time.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: I think I'm realizing that there are positions and companies where you can combine your passions and your values.

They're out there, I just need to be able to find them.

>> Devohne: We drove into Arches, and for me, just seeing that, it just puts things into perspective as far as how diverse and how much there is within our own country.

Those are moments where you kind of humble yourself and really appreciate what you have and what we've been given.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: As the trip has progressed, I've realized that everyone's version of success is really different.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: I think the next thing that I'm looking for is how do I as a woman, coming from a standpoint of the very traditional household, feel comfortable with actively speaking out.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: We're on our last week and we'll be literally going back to the area I grew up in.

So I guess this is kind of my last chance to figure out if there is a future for me in computer science because I'm still not sure.

>> Sage: I guess I feel like I haven't made the most of this trip.

I've just felt super awkward and stupid in comparison to you two.

You're so brilliant and you're so stupid for not realizing that.

I realize that's a contraction.

>> Devohne: I think that- >> Sage: You're really smart.

>> Devohne: I felt the same exact way that you felt.

>> Megan: Yeah.

>> Devohne: And I don't think at the end of the day any of us are any better off than each other.

I think we're all kind of in the same spot.

But I feel like deep down I still probably feel that way.

>> Megan: I know, I always felt like I'm the odd one out compared to you two, cuz you're both so smart and you've made it so far in your lives.

>> Sage: I mean, I struggled to get a part-time job for so long, I can't even picture getting a full-time job or anything.

>> Devohne: It's possible though, even though you can't picture it right now, it's definitely possible.

I know how you feel in this moment, but all I can do is tell you how much I disagree with you.

The main thing that I don't want you to do is to lose your determination or lose your focus, because honestly, I feel like you're right on the brink of whatever you're trying to attain.

I really do.

Whatever is destined for you, I can feel it, you're literally almost there.

>> Megan: And I feel like if anything, from all the people that we've interviewed, nothing ever goes as planned.

You never feel like you're in the right spot to be in, but that's when you know something great is about to happen.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: Sage was really honest about how she was feeling on the trip.

It's so easy to compare yourself with other people, especially when you're in close quarters.

And I felt really bad because I didn't know that's what she was going through.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: It felt like a relief, like a cathartic moment.

And I just hadn't realized that basically Megan and Devohne were feeling the same feelings that I was feeling.

It was weird to see that these people who are so amazing in my eyes actually thought that I was intimidating >> Megan: It doesn't feel like it's the last day of interviews.

>> Devohne: I don't want to talk about the last day of interviews.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: Our final interview of the trip is with Emily Ma.

She's the food systems lead at X, The Moonshot Factory.

Their goal is to create technologies that help solve some of the world's biggest problems.

>> Sage: I'm super looking forward to meeting Emily Ma.

She's trying to eliminate food waste while also getting to use computer science, so I think that's really cool.

>> Sage: Hello.

>> Emily: Hey, welcome to X. I'm super excited to meet all three of you here.

Let's go on in.

>> Megan: Okay.

>> Emily: My name is Emily Ma, I am the lead of our food systems work here at X.

And X is Alphabet's Moonshot Factory.

That means we are the innovation factory for Alphabet, which is the parent company for Google.

This is probably a really good example of the weird and wacky stuff that we like to do here.

This is a project I worked on about four years ago that is now a standalone company called Loon.

We thought that by putting whatever's on a cell tower on the balloon, that we could bring internet connectivity everywhere in the world where it's rural or remote more effectively and more cheaply.

X is super committed to working on the biggest challenges that we face as humanity.

There's everything we need back there to build the first prototype of anything, from the self-driving car to Google Glass.

This is a one sixteenth model of a battery.

>> Sage: That's so cool, what?

[LAUGH] I'm from the Bay.

Basically, because of the housing crisis my family and a lot of my friends have had to move out of the communities we grew up in.

I genuinely feel that's because of the gentrification that tech brought with it.

Because of that, it's hard to me to kind of see a good to tech, although that kinda seems to be exactly what X is working on.

>> Emily: For me, X is a really unique place because we actually believe strongly that technology can make a positive contribution.

I was an environmentalist, reading up on climate issues even when I was in high school.

And for me the striking statistic came out that 30% of all greenhouse gases actually come from our food system.

There's this weird disconnect where we have all this excess and all of these people and then it's [SOUND].

So I'm super curious about answering the question of, what if there was a smarter food system where we can help everyone, from the farmer to the chef, feel confident that they're doing, not just the right thing locally for their family, for their community, but actually nationally and then globally, for the environment, for society.

And that's a hard, hard, challenging computer science problem, that is super worthwhile for us to work on.

>> Megan: Coming from an immigrant family, a lot of expectations, being a stay at home mom and then taking care of family.

Something that I'm just struggling with is how I'm gonna end up balancing that with my career, and what that's gonna look like for me.

>> Emily: For many years of my life, because I grew up in an Asian family, because my mother encouraged me to be the last one to speak or the last one to eat, I always was in roles where I was in support.

I could never be the person who is really leading the team.

Over time, I realized that actually leaders come in many different forms.

They don't have to be tall.

They don't have to be charismatic.

They don't have to be extroverted.

I thought they had to be tall, charismatic and extroverted.

I don't know where that came from, but I just had in my head that you had to look a certain way and act a certain way.

Once I realized that, I allowed myself to have a chance, and actually people came to support me after I was able to express that to others.

I think I'm at a point where my parents are just very happy for me because they know I'm happy.

I know it's not a satisfying answer per se- >> Megan: [LAUGH] >> Emily: Because they're still gonna ask you, when are you gonna get married?

And are you gonna have kids?

And why doesn't your boyfriend play golf?

But I'm like- >> Megan: [LAUGH] >> Emily: But I actually do believe that ultimately they deeply want us to be happy.

>> Sage: What advice would you give to someone our age who's like, maybe not sure of what they wanna do or who wants to change the world?

>> Emily: If I could go back and tell myself something 20 years ago when I came to California, it would be the journey is never gonna be predictable.

We have to kind of wander a little bit.

The hardest problems that we face as humanity today, we have to be willing to go try.

Because if we are so scared that we're going to fail and we don't even try, we'll never find a solution.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: It was really cool seeing that like you could focus on these big problems and you can actually make a difference in the community.

>> Emily: All right, well, thank you.

This was an honor.

>> Sage: That was the interview that did it for me, over the entire road trip.

My spark for computer science was back.

That interview had such an impact on me.

>> Emily: Life is a marathon and not a sprint.

>> Megan: I think something that really resonated with me was your parents want you to be happy.

I wanna do what I think is best for me.

And even if they don't necessarily agree with that, when they see me being happy, I think that's ultimately what they want.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: It's kind of feeling surreal right now, being here on the last day of the trip.

You're really tall, so you can do this better [LAUGH].

>> Devohne: I'm more sad than anything.

At the same time I feel good that I've built this network out of this entire experience.

>> Megan: Kinda just like flashed, now it's over and I'm headed home.

>> Devohne: At the beginning of this trip, because I didn't have that traditional story, I felt like I didn't belong.

And then as we progressed, it's allowed me to realize that my foot is in the doorway and all I have to do is just continue to pave my way up.

>> Sage: When I started, I was feeling very pessimistic about the path that I was on.

And honestly, it was only until the very end that I started thinking, wow, wait.

I can make an impact and it's okay if things aren't great now, but eventually, they can be.

That's the thing I needed for me to finish my computer science degree.

>> [MUSIC] >> Megan: I feel like something that I was really worried about was not being supported in the work environment, feeling that you are one of the few women in the industry.

As we got to hear a lot of different stories, I came to realize that I wanna find myself navigating my career and being that change that I wanna see in the industry.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: I'm always gonna be fighting for equality and that's in every single thing that I do, be it career wise, side passions or anything.

>> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: You have such an impact on the next generation.

I want them to see that there is no limit on what you can do.

>> [MUSIC] >> Sage: I think it was a wake up call to be like, I can do something to change these statistics and to be a role model for others.

>> Megan: I hope our society is ready for diversity in computer science.

I hope they're ready, because I think we have so much to offer.

[LAUGH] >> [MUSIC] >> Devohne: In life, any opportunity to excel or any chance to move forward is literally at your fingertips.

>> [MUSIC] Wondering what to do with your life?

Well we've been there and we're here to help Our website has some awesome tools to help you find your path And you can check out all our documentaries, interviews and more Start exploring at roadtripnation.com