The ideas expressed in City club forums are those of the speakers and not of the City Club of Cleveland Ideastream Public Media or their sponsors.

Production and distribution of City club forums and ideastream Public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland, Inc.. Good afternoon and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland.

We are devoted to conversations of consequence that helps democracy thrive.

It's Friday, June 13th.

And I'm Cynthia Connolly, director of programing here, and pleased to introduce today's forum, which is part of the City Club's Health Equity and Criminal Justice series.

At every stage of our criminal justice process, disparity exist and our communities, young people are bearing a disproportionate burden.

As of September 2024, black youth comprise 72% of Ohio's youth prison population, with black boys and teens alarmingly overrepresented in these numbers.

Add to this recent research has uncovered an adult ification bias against black girls who are viewed as less innocent and more adult, like often leading to harsher, harsher penalties than their white peers.

Members of the Youth Justice Collaborative believe it is time for our public leaders, courts and communities to prioritize effective interventions rather than criminalize adolescence that rely on tough on crime approaches.

Through the collaborative, they have supported transformative grassroots efforts that place community led programs within the facilities of the juvenile detention center.

Today, we will hear more about what the collaborative is and ways they found to move forward together and reshape youth justice.

Joining us on stage are individuals directly working in the collaborative.

We have Bridget Gibbons, deputy court administrator at the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court.

We have LaToya Logan CEO of Project Lift Services and Judge Anne C. McDonough.

She is with the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court as well.

MODERATOR of the conversation is Habeebah R. Grimes, CEO at the positive education program, whose last day at PEP will be the end of this month.

And I know we did this before the program, but I'm submitting it here for the record on air.

Can we please give a round of applause to Habiba for her 22 years of service?

Thank you.

Habiba, your leadership is inspiring, and we thank you for your literal decades of service to Northeast Ohio's youth.

Thank you.

Now, if you have a question during the second half of the forum, you can text it to 3305415794 and City Club staff will try to work it into the program.

Members and friends of the City Club of Cleveland please join me in welcoming all of our guests here today.

Thank you.

Thank you, Cynthia.

As we enter into this conversation, I have to say a couple words of gratitude.

And I'm going to try not to be too emotional because this is a point of transition for me.

But as you look at this stage, I'm imagining some of the you might be thinking in a system that disproportionately impacts black men and boys.

How is it that we have a panel of women sitting before you and I want to lift up Tim Trimble and Peter Whitt for the powerful leadership that you provide, the humility that you bring to this work that causes you not to be on this stage and to defer to the expertise and wisdom that is here.

It is an honor to serve on the youth justice Collaborative and to represent PEP and my colleagues here.

I thank you for your work to help disrupt the pipeline that we know exists in our community, funneling young people into the prison system.

I thank you, too, for the gracious and generous seat at the table that you offered myself and others.

And I see Aisha Hardaway sitting there and I thank you for sisterhood and friendship and wisdom that helps to inform me as I'm part of this work and helps to inform my thinking.

As I thought about the amazing panel here and the questions that I would share with them.

So we'll get into this conversation.

I know our time will fly by, but I'm really excited for the community to hear more about the Youth Justice Collaborative and its work.

So my first question is actually for you, Bridget, if you would, please share about the Youth Justice Collaborative, how it came to be and how the shared vision for the collaborative work was established.

Thank you, whoever.

I really appreciate that question.

I can tell you where it started.

Two curious men, Tim Trimble and Peter Witt, were introduced to me and our superintendent of Detention services, Celeste Wainwright.

A couple of years ago.

They just had a natural curiosity about youth justice.

They're two men that are from highly impacted communities, and they were very curious about what goes on in the court.

You know what?

What kind of programs do we have, if any?

You know, these were things that were directly impacting their neighborhoods.

So they were introduced to us.

And we, you know, in a spirit of transparency, really wanted to have a conversation with them.

And that conversation just kind of led to more curiosity about what happens.

And at 9300, Quincy, what decisions are made there?

And that just kind of blossomed into I think Tim really led the charge in a vision about we need to be engaging community conversations, We need to be talking about these issues, we need to be learning from one another.

So, you know, at the same time, the court was, you know, trying to lean more into being transparent, leading with empathy and understanding and reckoning a bit with a lot with racial disparities in the youth justice system.

So it really became an opportunity.

And I will say, you know, Tim was persistently courageous with his vision and didn't give up on it.

And so then when I will admit, when I saw the guest list, I was like, Oof, what have I gotten the court into?

You know, I was a little frightened, but it was in a good way, you know, because you learn and you grow in time and those pain points.

And so that's that's really how it came about.

Was Tim just a desire to learn more and to for the court to be engaged with our community members that were highly impacted by the Justice system and to have open dialog much like we're having today.

And we knew there were going to be pain points.

And I think what we tried to lead with was a level of vulnerability to be open to discussing things that were hard to look at, data points that are not things that we're excited to talk about, but willing to talk about.

And so that that's really what grew so much of the Youth Justice Collaborative is, is we have an opportunity to dialog and ask questions.

And from there, you know, when we were wanting to be more engaged in the community, that the history of the court was we make decisions in silo and we're making them on behalf of you.

And so we've been journeying away from that and trying to think about how we can make decisions with community members.

Co-design things together, come out of saying, okay, you can have a seat at our table and respectfully asking, Do you mind if we pull up a chair and sit down at your table?

And so that's really what I think that Tim's vision was.

He he's really the genius behind it.

I just was kind of willing enough to go along for the ride and bring a couple of people along.

And I will say to the credit of many of the leaders at our court now, you know, everyone was prepared to do this.

You know, everyone all of our leaders.

Vann Sarah Puentes, Celeste Wainwright, our director of information services, Alice McDaniel, who knows how to put that information out there.

We're all willing to be part of this and to lean into some of this difficult conversations.

Yeah, thank you.

What I've witnessed is like a willingness to be present with the discomfort that's needed to kind of break down those silos and be in shared space and navigate the relationship between harm and repair.

And I've witnessed the humility that that's taken to navigate that that polarity.

Thank you.

All right.

Well, as members of the Youth Justice Collaborative, let me back up.

I have to take it to the the mayor's Latoya Logan.

Cuyahoga County's youth, as we've said, have had the highest rate of incarceration in Ohio's youth prison system.

And black boys and teens are alarmingly overrepresented, as has been indicated, as well as in the population of youth housed in our juvenile detention center.

Please tell us about the work of Project Lift Services and within this context, why you see it as important to be part of these Youth Justice collaborative.

Thank you.

Well, good afternoon, everyone.

And I'm going to keep this short because they didn't give me 2 hours to speak.

And if you know me, I need about eight.

So but I want to say that Project Live Services is truly a love letter, an expression of love to black males and the black community and really larger humanity in this county.

And and really, I think nationally, Project List came about after years of working as a social worker and juvenile and adult justice system for incarceration systems, diversion and independent living.

And what I found is that far too often the space for safe expression to make mistakes and learn from them as opposed to being penalized was not available for black boys.

So Project Live was developed to be a safe space that not only talks about what we want you to improve, but really promotes the idea that you deserve joy at the center of your wellness.

So when I found it Project Lift in 2016 and I was looking for support for it, I was told often by people, Black boys are not as sympathetic cause and if you chose to work with a different population, then we would be able to fund you.

If you work with girls, if you work with kids, if you work with mothers.

And as a person who was adopted and my eldest brother being murdered, my other brothers going through the criminal justice system, having worked with young boys in Indian River Juvenile Correctional Facility, it to me enraged me to the point where I understood my true purpose.

I needed to take every ounce of intellect, energy, passion, voice and privilege from being in the experience that I have to ensure that this conversation wasn't just had, but that the conversation turned into action and turned into impact.

And so I have to thank the court.

I've known Bridget for a while.

She loves me and I've been able to really say, okay, this is what I think.

And it's great to work with people and judge and who understand the work, not just in the number and recidivism, but understand it and the lives impacted every time we have a young black boy arrested or convicted.

And we think that that's a win for safety.

What we've done is we perpetuated oppression, we perpetuated stigma, and we've denied children protection.

So I see the work of Project Live on this collaborative as an extension of creating protection, safety and raising joy.

Thank you for that, Latoya.

Thank you for your service and leadership.

You know, I'm a mother to two boys, and part of the decision I'm making around my transition is I need to lean in with them and be present for them during a very vulnerable time because this five foot eight, 11 year old that I have is no longer seen as a boy in the eyes of community members.

And so a centering joy for black boys.

Their safety and protection is courageous.

It is countercultural.

And I thank you.

I also just want to invite you to share a little bit about the relationship of trauma to black boys and men's experiences and how so often we see suffering of black boys and men as they're the result of their own actions.

It's deserved.

It's earned it somehow to be treated as as justifiable.

Absolutely.

I think we get into this thing and there's so much research that says that when we look at black boys as early as ten, we see them as adults, which means we see them as culpable for their actions.

We see them as deviant.

We see them as intentionally engaging in malice.

But I invite you to think about children.

There isn't a child who controls or creates a culture that they exist with, that they are simply doing their best to navigate.

What we as the adults and professionals created for them and when they make mistakes, do we take accountability for our lack of access, for our lack of support for our own beliefs?

That passed out and they are now trying to live up to.

And so when we're thinking about trauma, I want to raise that not just trauma, but chronic dysfunction, poverty, unresolved grief.

We know that we have so much violence and harm happening, but we've not invested in grief services in every single school and every single household.

Instead, we prefer family regulation as opposed to actual family education.

And we have a responsibility as the professionals in the room to ensure that our children have an opportunity.

We have to provide it for them.

They can't create it themselves.

So it's McDonough As members of the Youth Justice, Collaborative juries have played an important role in sharing information about the judicial process with regard to juveniles and the considerations you have to keep in mind as you're making decisions on each case.

Please share some of the essential consideration with us that you're weighing and how shared understanding can help advance the collaborative submission.

Thank you.

That's a great question.

I believe that when I think of the collaborative, I think of listening and learning.

I think of Aisha and Hannah set strict rules before every meeting that we are to leave our politics and our judgments at the door.

And I know that I've learned a lot in the considerations that I make as a judge, but I've also been able to share as a judge the considerations that I am required by my job to make as a judge.

We have to follow the law and we have to work within the law for the unique mission of juvenile court, which is to focus on rehabilitate nation for the youth and the family.

And in that I call it a puzzle.

In each case, I look at that puzzle and look at the family and the child.

I look at the individuals who have been affected by the child's conduct, and I look at the impact of the community as a whole and communities safety.

And we have to try to make the use the professionals within our probation and all of the service providers to make the best decision for each child and family in those considerations.

I know for myself, a consideration that has definitely changed from the collaborative is that I have to think simple.

I can jump ten feet ahead and I want to get an internship for a kid or think the sky is go as big as the sky.

But I want to think simple.

I know from having kids voices we have heard to keep it simple help a child get an email, make sure basic needs are met.

Focus on the most immediate goals that can be accomplished.

And I think the beauty in this is by us being in this shared space.

There are advocates in that space, right?

The super center is represented and policy matters and all of the professional and nonprofessional advocates who are in that space.

And so as we're listening to the especially administrative code elements, we get to listen for what will we like to see change and what would maybe with policy change have a lesser harmful impact.

And so being in that space together makes that more possible, along with considering the the different elements that are important as we think about the different people impacted by our young person's choices or experience.

Thank you.

I'm curious for all of you to respond to this.

The narratives that we have formed about young people involved with the youth justice system often criminalize pathologize or villainize and demonize our kids, specifically those who are black.

We're discouraged from interrogating how the systemic barriers that Latoya talked about contribute to children becoming involved in behaviors that are are unsettling or even unsafe to the community for themselves.

So how how might we as a community acknowledge that there are urgent concerns that need to be addressed starting early, particularly when young people have such unfettered access to firearms?

How do we do that without dehumanizing and writing them off?

What role might the collaborative play in helping change that dominant narrative and your perspectives on that?

Yeah, I'll take a stab.

That's a really important question, and I'm going to do my best here.

But I can say that, you know, recently we have had a narrative or rhetoric around young people in our community that definitely vilifies them terminology and words we've heard in the media and from some utilizing terms like animals.

It's just, you know, I think what that does is creates a us versus and it it creates a fear as us as adults and leaders in our community, too, that we're supposed to fear young people.

We're supposed to be afraid of them.

And that's just not the natural order of what a healthy community does.

You know, the natural order of a healthy community.

Adults embrace young people and they do what they can to create opportunities for young people and nurturing young people in the way that we should.

Our own children has to be part of the way that we move forward with young people, even those that have engaged in egregious things in the community.

You know, I think to your point, though, there's this important part.

We can't do that without recognizing the unique nature of teenagers.

Right.

So, I mean, there is no better time in human development than adolescent years.

It's the best.

Your bodies are healthier than they'll ever be just for that left side of the room.

It only goes down from here.

So, you know, your brains are just capable of growing in hours are on the decline.

You know, your ability to take risks is admirable.

It's the best, you know?

So we should be lifting that up.

We should be giving opportunities for young people to tap into that that desire for excitement.

But, you know, I have two teenagers at home and and I can tell you the difference between them and some of the kids that are involved in our system is just a matter of resources and opportunity.

And, you know, it it it's heartbreaking when you think about that.

And I talk to young people in our detention center and when we get, you know, programs like our deejay programs, music, arts, and you see the joy that Latoya talked about on their faces, you're reminded that these these are opportunities that were missed as the adults in our community.

And let's not forget, we hold all the cards here as the adults we vote.

We're the ones that write policy and legislation, and then we blame them when they are able to get a hold of a handgun and do something that's incredibly impulsive.

Well, so I just want us as leaders to act like adults and take care of our kids that think that was an excellent response, Bridget.

And when we talk about children and we say things like justice involved, children are youth are demonized.

That's not actually true.

It's it's a racial divide.

We had and this isn't a political statement, and maybe it is, but we had Kyle Rittenhouse Cross state lines and kill two people and seriously injure someone else.

And we said, what a child who needs to be protected and should be given another opportunity.

Yet we had in our own city Tamir Rice being murdered after 27 seconds of police arrival because what a threat he must be.

Racism is at the center of that, because that's a longstanding tradition in America that when there are black and brown bodies and they engage in any behavior that violates social norms, they have done it because they are inherently more morally broken, that this is just what they're about.

And so we have to corral them and confine them and take away from them.

So when we see a 12 year old who's involved with peer boys come in and our prosecutor says, well, we want to definitely try this person as an adult, I know he's young, but what will he be then?

We're talking about an extension of super predator theory.

That said, our kids are so dangerous that there is no opportunity, there is no hope.

And so we as individuals who work and, you know, we have privilege, we have homes and we have cars and we have things that we purchase and we want to keep them safe.

What is our role in perpetuating the stigma?

Because we have bought into capitalism that values materialism over children.

What are we willing to do to then say enough is enough because it doesn't just stop at youth?

We're involved in justice system.

Most youth who are involved in justice system at the juvenile level will become involved at the adult level.

And what I always ask our legal serving people, our teachers, our faith based organizing organizers who are like, you know what?

We got to lock some people up.

How do you want them to return?

If the best we can do in response to harm is to do more harm, we might as well give up today.

So I believe in restorative justice because it's about looking at needs and harms.

What were the needs of that child that then led to the harms and their behavior?

And what is the accountability we must take and repairing it.

And it can't just be throwing them away.

We owe them better than that.

Yeah.

I just want to say there's this habit in this country of disrupting what should happen to the natural order of things that adults would care about and love on and nurture and create space for young people.

But anti-Blackness in particular interrupts the natural order of things and compels us to engage in violent behavior.

When children are struggling.

When children are seeking guidance, needing guidance, we turn toward the punitive and the most violent options for those young people.

And you're giving voice to that is just so deeply appreciate it.

Thank you.

And I would just echo what Latoya said and what Bridget said.

But getting to the why for each child and something I think that the collaborative has helped us do is many of us were geared towards that work before the collaborative.

But we you have brought us into rooms with people who were also doing that work, but we were doing it in silos and now we're working together.

We've built relationships.

The court has established over 20 relationships with grassroot organizations.

Hopefully the court can be involved with the child for three months as and and connect them to in my envision a grassroots organization that is in their neighborhood that they don't have a transportation barrier, but now they're into boxing.

Now they have a hobby, a thing to do after school, a mentor, someone that they trust, a project lift to talk to.

And that relationship will last longer than the one with the court.

And hopefully that is their only involvement with the court.

So I think establishing those grassroots organizations, helping our children as far upstream and they are our kids, the media does what makes it to the news is negative and can be demeaning to our children.

These are all of our children.

They all need all of us.

And I think that's a success.

A lot of times can be quiet, but there are I can see a whole table of people from the court in the back working towards success every day.

Thank you.

And we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge in ways the ways in which the court has punished socially, let's say, for those moments where you take the risk, you take the chance on the kid.

And so thank you for the courageousness that our juvenile court here in Cuyahoga County has taken to center the needs of young people.

Understand the structural forces that play in their lives, even if it means you might be cast asunder in the news if something doesn't go exactly as planned or intended.

Thank you.

So the last question I have for you all is about youth voice, and it's such a joy and honor to see the young people in the room today.

Thank you all for being here.

There is such intention to engage youth voice as part of the Youth Justice Collaborative and through the establishment of the Youth Advisory Council, as well as the presence of young people who are with us from the Boys and Girls Club Girls Club of Northeast Ohio's St Luke's Club.

So shout out to Earl Ingram if you know him.

He always has young people with him.

He does not shy away from them being in the room for tough conversations.

What are your thoughts about how we further support the engagement of young people and secure that engagement of the most impacted young people in terms of the youth justice system?

I'll take I'll take the first crack at it.

Okay.

So I want to give you two anecdotal stories that I can think of where we've benefited from to hear the voice of young people.

And these these two were with us.

I'm going to go back to Chicago.

We went through I was going to tell the groups, no, I can start with the first one then.

So, I mean, engaging young people is vital.

We have an adult lens and again, they have they have their own lens, their own experience, and they have been invaluable in sharing with us their feedback.

And I will say we are nowhere where we want to be on this issue.

We are just beginning to defacto in on engaging young people, on policies, on conversations and programs.

But you know, if it's okay, tell us.

We went to Chicago together to look at some of the things they were doing to tap into positive youth development opportunities in an area that was deeply, in fact impacted by gun violence.

And they had so many great things.

And we're just going around the table like and that bargaining program, that art program, that recording studio, that technology program, we're just flying high.

And our young person, we brought a young person with us and he was putting around, as he usually did, and came back to the table at his own leisure, you know.

And so then we asked what's what was your thought?

What was your feedback as we're like floating up here?

And he goes, I really liked the washer and dryer, right?

So this was a young person saying, There's a lot of kids I go to school with, went to school with, go have dirty clothes, and they're embarrassed so they're not going to go to school.

And he just I mean, you should have seen the collective like, oh, you know, what a reality check.

You know, he was able to kind of share it with us and he took us to school.

You know, the importance of basic needs first.

And I thought that was important.

And then I will give a shout out to some of our residents in our detention center, Jerry Billups, Thomas Pipkin, run our resident advisory council in our detention center.

And they have an opportunity for young people to talk about things that are difficult for them, elevate issues of conditions of confinement.

And, you know, they've vocalized their care, empathy and concern for kids that didn't have visitors come in to see them, you know, and so that the whole pod comes to go see their family in visitation and that one boy is left behind with nobody coming to see him week after week after week.

And they had the idea of, you know, mentors from the community, community members coming in and sitting down with that kid during visitation.

We just thought that was genius and a benefit to have in their voice.

Absolutely.

And just to extend a little bit, one, what Bridgett said when we went to Chicago to look at build and then we listen to the youth, the first thing I said is when I get back, we have to have a washer and dryer in our office and we do.

And my staff are there and they can tell you our clients use it.

And it's been something that is so small that you don't think about has great meaning.

But what that person, what those kids are saying is I want dignity.

And so I'm not going to go to school, I'm not going to engage in things.

I'm willing to engage in criminal behavior to get money so I can get dignity.

And so that was important for us.

The second thing I think about is you know, I work with youth.

And so sometimes you think because you work with youth, you really understand them.

And I am struggling right now with a 22 year old, my nephew, who I love, who has turned 22 and decided I know nothing and I am so old.

How dare he right.

And and what I'm realizing is it isn't that he does not love me or respect me.

It's I don't understand what he is going through.

And so sometimes we want to create safe spaces, but we want to be in the room and we shouldn't be.

And so what spaces are we in this city, in this county?

What spaces have we created where youth can say, I'm going to take this room and I'm going to talk to other youth about these issues?

This is why I believe incredible messaging and the court has really supported us in this work, not just in voice, but in money too, because it takes money to do these things.

But credible messaging is about pulling people with lived experience, lived experience.

So these are people who are going to have criminal histories, people who might have addiction histories, people who may have done some things.

But teaching them, training them so that they can go out and reach the people that we can't.

Because no matter how our heart is invested, we are not the they want to share with.

And so we have to understand that sometimes our job is to just create the space for them to do what they need to do and for us to wait when they're ready to report out.

And then the last thing I'll say to how we lift up youth is if a youth gives you a suggestion because you ask for it.

You better implement it.

You and I again agree with my fellow panelists, and I would just say that that is another message that has been heard loud and clear in the collaborative is listening and listening to our youth.

And I am well aware that when I am in a courtroom, there is a power dynamic of the youth and the family before me.

But I make every effort to listen to each child.

And what a lot of times, every time for probation, I ask what a child, what activity do I want to be involved in?

What could we do to help you?

And that has been our probation transformation, which I would for Bridgette and Van Ward and our court administration, is that our probation officers are we try to have them operate now as coaches, helpful people, opportune use probation as an opportunity to connect to resources, to get involved in an activity and be enrolled in a school that you want to go to.

But listen to what a child and what their family is telling you that they need rather than ordering what you believe they need.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I have something that I know each of you would agree with is if you're inviting young people so off the table to do the labor of helping the adults figure things out, you should be compensating them for that labor.

And if we want to understand how that can happen, we have Peter and Tim here to help me understand the logistics involved, because I think sometimes we let logistics get in the way of doing what's right and the modeling that exist within the Youth Justice Collaborative with the Youth Advisory Council is one that is the labor is compensated.

So with that we will be moving into the Q and a portion of our conversation for our live stream and radio audience or those just joining.

I'm Habiba Grimes, CEO at Positive Education Program.

We're best known as Pat and moderator For today's conversation, we're joined today by individuals involved with the Youth Justice Collaborative, talking about how to reshape youth justice through effective interventions.

Here with me are Bridget Gibbons, deputy court administrator at the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court, and Latoya Logan, CEO of Project Live Services and an McDonagh judge at the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court.

We welcome questions from everyone city club members, guests, students and those joining via our live stream at City Club dot org or live radio broadcast at 89.7 WKSU Ideastream Public Media.

If you if you'd like to text the question for our panelists, please text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And City Club staff will try to work it into the program.

May we have the first question, please?

This is a wonderful panel.

I'm so glad you're here.

So often when it comes time to vote, people forget that we have 18 year olds who are literally locked up, but they still have the right to vote.

And so my question to you is, how often does that conversation come up within the collaborative?

You know, when you talk about feeling like you make a difference in this world, I think one of the things that needs to happen is for 18 year olds to know that they have rights.

And I'm just wondering how much that gets talked about when you talk about civic engagement.

So to take that.

Well, I would say at the collaborative, we've talked about it in terms of understanding which are what is available to you knowing that you should get registered.

I don't think that we may have done it in-depth, but I think that is an initiative that we're moving towards.

I know for Project Live, we register our clients on the spot.

We educate those who are currently incarcerated awaiting trial because you can vote even when you're awaiting trial.

And so we do that work.

I think it needs to be strengthened.

And I think sometimes it's because we're so focused sometimes on what we're there to do.

Justice impact, but not linking that to voting, to attending your council meetings, to meeting your local leaders.

And I think we can strengthen that a little bit more.

This report, the 1969 Mayor's Report on Welfare, on which Steve Minter served on the Commission, concluded that we cannot solve poverty with services and welfare programs.

We only guaranteed jobs can solve that.

So we've known this since 1969.

So my first question would be have our foundation's civic organizations and city and county government done enough to provide jobs for youth?

Second question is what would it do for the youth you work with?

If there was a Cuyahoga promise that all youth would have guaranteed summer jobs and and part time or full time living wage jobs until they are 25, whether engaged in job training and education.

what would it do for your youth?

Thank you.

So I see this is one that comes up the most.

I have been engaged in some community conversations going out with law enforcement to community neighborhood meetings where people are concerned about what young people are doing in their communities.

Because I don't want to dismiss something.

Some things they do are frightening, you know?

So we have to think about as adults, how do we help them in jobs is the one that comes up the absolute most.

So the simple answer is, no, we're not doing enough.

We need to do more.

It is the common theme that comes up from concerned community members when we go out to those meetings.

It is the common theme that comes up from young people themselves.

They, you know, give an opportunity.

It does go a little further than just giving them a job, though I will say when I used to do in-home therapy as a multi systemic therapist and I would take my kids out and I would watch them go and pick up job applications and you know how they talked to adults and oh, we got a little to work on here, you know, So you've really got to help with the skill set to be able to do those things and help them problem solve.

It's mentoring and it's coaching for young people too.

You can get a job, but you know, how do we help you also keep that job.

And is the other thing too is, you know, sitting in meetings and a lot of times adults, you know, I had a meeting where we had a young person stepping out of Ohio Department of Youth Services, and the adults around the room were like, well, we'll get him a job at Amazon.

And he said seven times, he wants to be a welder.

Why don't we figure out how to help him?

WELD Right.

So, yeah, and we have these resources, so we, you know, luckily we were able to tie that young person into a welding program at Tri-C Manufacturing.

But yeah, we need a lot more work on that.

And I think we can certainly pin that to agenda items with our with our group.

So thank you for bringing that up.

And I would I was going to jump on that too, is that I would echo that we are not doing enough that in real vocational or educational training that we can connect our kids to and have a bridge to a union, to a next opportunity, expose kids, keep them busy, that I really think that that would be helpful and not just have those kids upstream them as soon as we can with opportunities.

But also I oversee and Latoya works with me on the reentry docket and our kids returning back to the community.

We need to help them and give them a chance.

And if I want to elevate an idea, I have created an intern network for those kids to give them opportunities within our community.

They are so smart and so interested and ready to learn, and we need people to give them a chance.

Mm hmm.

I just I just like.

I just.

I hope, too, that this question would be posed to the corporate sector.

Right?

Like we have a shared responsibility.

And I think sometimes the nonprofit and human services and education and justice systems are taxed tax with identifying and establishing solutions that are solutions that require a shared investment of resources, both fiscal but also personal, interpersonal, relational for the mentoring and coaching that you would get your own kid to keep a job for for young people in this system.

So thank you for that question.

And invoking Steve mentors.

So it's such a just well remembered leader.

I see we have a young person.

Please, what is your question?

My name is Devin Moore and I'm with the REACH program.

And my question is, what role do youth voices, especially black boys, play in shaping these programs?

And are we being heard or just included?

Oh, they are.

Well, thank you, Mr. Moore, for your question.

And it's it's valid and it's something that I think about all the time.

Like you you as leaders, we are tasked with leading, which means we make decisions, we decide what's the program, what's to intervention, who should be here.

And I think the best way that we get to outcomes is by allowing you all to inform what we do.

So I know what the collaborative this is why we invite the Youth Voices is to raise the questions, to offer feedback, and then to hopefully implement that in a tangible way.

What I can say to you at Project Lift, we we value that, but we also embody that there isn't a single program intervention, service or resource that we offer that did not come from the black males we intend to serve.

We have sensory rooms because our clients ask for them.

We have food in the office because our clients ask for them.

We have staff who have donated clothing and then run around the city getting clothing from other people because our clients say that is what they need.

So to be included, which you're saying is not just the making the recommendation, but to see your recommendation fulfilled as a living embodiment of what we do.

I think we can strengthen that.

I think we have to create better where I say more accessible, safe spaces and opportunities for you to share without policing your presentation.

Because while Mr. Moore has a great presentation to ask that question, some of the black males who have great recommendations as suggestions are going to come with profanity, they're going to smell like marijuana, they're going to have tattoos and wear hoodies, and are we going to listen to them just as well, or are we going to say there's a certain type of black male that we will listen to and include in the conversation?

So it's twofold.

so it was really helpful to me to hear you all acknowledge the racial disparity in the justice system and in particular in in the number of black males being bound over over 90% of those bound over are black males.

And I also greatly appreciate the agreement that this from all of you, that this is a bad, bad thing and a problem we should be solving.

So my question is, I see this is a vision for systems change.

What do you envision or what have you implemented to begin to change that racial disparity?

Thank you.

So that's a really good question.

I think it's a complicated issue.

You know, when we look at racial disparities, there's so many things that go into racial disparities in Cuyahoga County is looks like other justice systems across the country.

All justice systems and criminal justice, juvenile and adult have racial disparities baked in.

And so it is something that I think, you know, what are we going to do?

One is acknowledge it and work to look at our data at every point in the youth justice system.

It starts at the earliest point.

I think it's partnering with other youth serving agencies, our educators.

We talk about young girls, specifically young black girls being more likely to be suspended, expelled and have the police called on them than their white peers.

So we need to engage educators in this work.

We need to engage clinicians in this work.

I've certainly been on teams where, you know, sometimes the Mental Health commission is saying you've got to call the police.

Well, no, that's not the answer here.

Let's figure out how we can do things.

So at the core, you know, we've really worked to not just focus on the deed, but pay attention to underlying need.

So, you know, what is the underlying need of young people, specifically young black people who come attention are caught.

How do we address that as a prevention and diversion and do what we can to address their needs, their families needs, and reduce taking things like filings on unruly?

When it's an education issue, it's a mental health issue.

Trying to walk away from criminalizing mental health and educational issues and work on investing supports up front to say there's actually a mentor who can help on this, or there's a case manager who can work on this.

It's really, like we said in part of the Youth Justice collab is about hearing from people in the community that see things different than I see them as a member of court administration and their perspective being at the table and saying, You might be looking at that the wrong way.

Maybe what is happening here for this young person is this.

And in developing policy around that and programs and having, you know, we have great clinicians, we need more of them.

But those grassroots agencies paired with really good clinical work can help kids stay out of the youth justice system.

And I think it's working with our partners that, you know, communities know how to heal, right?

So they know how to heal themselves.

When we have systems mandated systems get overly involved, we can make things worse for young people in their communities.

So sometimes our answer is step out of the way.

Let the community resolve this on their own.

Let their their community members come in and work with their young people and try to decriminalize what I would call sometimes not all the times adolescent developmentally appropriate behaviors.

This is a question that frustrates me As a black woman.

I am not responsible for resolving racism.

I, I should not be asked to remedy that because I every day wake up and intentionally keep myself together because of the impact of racism.

So I can give to others, to my staff, to my clients, and to my community.

I will say this race is is something that we keep shying away from.

We all want to talk about it.

We want to move past it.

And we have demonized and now are going to move legally against people who say race, who serve, black people who center around any group of persons that we've decided is not an appropriate group to exist in our world.

And so the small ways and things that we can do.

So I work in the field of behavioral health and my staff are quite clear that we have goals.

We are an access point for safety.

So we don't have a zero tolerance policy, we don't have compliance issues, and we do not say that people are treatment resistant.

We understand that part of eliminating the racial disparities is to ensure that they can access the services so if you have policies in place that would deny services, then that's the first part that you can start at as the professionals in the room.

The second part of this is truly thinking about what internalized racism across all demographics.

Do we hold that we allow our communities to continue to be divested from and we don't vote, that we allow people to sell us dreams but don't fulfill them.

That we have allowed a level of acceptance of such a limited life.

We have to decide on a personal level and then on that larger humanity level, what are we willing to do every single day to challenge those disparities?

And that means we have to live in discomfort.

That means that we can't chase the back.

That means that we can't believe that education or the job is the key.

Because what we know, the research is that black males, as they age.

Depression worsens and a lot of it has to do with their place of employment, the lack of support there and the continued stigma that they are forced to live within.

So it isn't enough to say, how do we end racism on this large scale?

What are you doing every single day to challenge it in your households, in your friendships and in your jobs?

I don't think I can add anything to I.

And I hear you.

Thank you.

Let's hope your passion is felt and shared.

And I just feel like we all need to a lot.

That exhale.

Hi.

Good.

Good afternoon.

My name is Bianca Crawford, and I'm with Motivated and Empowered Inc, and I have the privilege of partnering with a lot of the amazing organizations here.

But my question today is, as a youth who was involved in a justice sentenced to seven years in O'Dwyer's, I still see the same things is happening with our black girls.

They are taught that they will be okay.

They don't have the same opportunity and spaces.

And although the justice system is, we understand that the African American young male is highly at risk.

Our black girls are just as vulnerable but forgotten about.

There are not spaces.

There's not community housing, there's not resources.

There's really given them with their needs.

So as I talk to Director Ashe, as I talk to Bridget, as I talk to Mr. Pipkin, what we're seeing is that they're forgotten and they're pushing to human trafficking, sex trafficking, teenage pregnancy, high school dropout rate.

What can we do?

Can continue to be able to create holistic services for them and be able to make sure they're not forgotten about in this mission.

Awesome.

Thank you, Bianca, and thank you for your service.

I know we're running short on time, but I will say I so appreciate you elevating young girls.

They do come in and you like unique ways into the youth justice system, and it's usually from abuse and neglect and push out from school districts into our programs.

We have designed some really great stuff for girls.

We have the Promise Team, which is a collaboration with Dr. Bobby Beal, who's a trauma specialist.

And we really at Why Girls Come In and how do we meet those needs.

And so many times young girls need a safe space, a mentor.

So we, we fund that program with specialized trauma training, gender responsive care, making sure that we have evidence based treatments and mentors and coaches, and we have funding for pro-social activities and incentives for them also.

So that's one way we're trying to address that.

But obviously we'll have to continue to have conversations with you.

Thank you so much to Bridget Gibbons, Latoya Logan, Judge McDonough, and of course, Habiba Grimes for joining us at the city Club today.

Forums like this one are made possible.

Thanks to generous support from individuals like you.

You can learn more about how to become a guardian of free speech at City Club.

Dawg.

Today's forum was part of our health equity series in partnership with the St Luke's Foundation, and it is also part of the City Club's Criminal Justice series, with support from the Sharon and Chuck Fowler Family Foundation.

Our gratitude to both of these incredible organizations for the work they do to transform youth justice.

The City Club would like to welcome students joining us from NC Square, STEM High School and the REACH program.

Well done with your question.

We would also like to welcome guests at the tables hosted by the Sharon Chuck Fowler Family Foundation, the Cuyahoga County Board of Developmental Disabilities, Cuyahoga County Public Defender's Office, Greater Cleveland Congregations Policy Matters.

Ohio Positive Education Program Project, Lyft Behavioral Health Services and the St Luke's Foundation.

Thank you all for being here today.

We have three forums coming up next week at the City Club on Tuesday, June 17th, we'll hear from Harvard political philosopher Michael Sandel and how democracy can survive in the 21st century.

Then on Wednesday, June 18th, we welcome Ken Merten, chair of the Democratic National Committee.

Newly elected Ohio Democratic Party Chair Kathleen Clyde will lead that conversation and just added.

And then on Friday, June 20th, we will hear from Ohio's Attorney General Dave Yost ideastream Mike McIntyre will moderate that conversation.

So much more has been added to our calendar for this summer.

Please learn more and check it out at City Club dawg.

And that brings us to the end of today's forum.

Thank you once again to our guests and to our members and friends at the City Club, I'm Cynthia Connelly and this forum is now adjourned for information on upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the City Club, Go to City Club Dawg.

The ideas expressed in City Club forums are those of the speakers and not of the City Club of Cleveland Ideastream Public Media or their sponsors.

Production and distribution of City club forums and Ideastream Public Media are made possible by PNC and the United Black of Greater Cleveland, Inc..